Listening to R/T
I say there boy
Joined: Mar 2000
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From: Somewhere
AFAIK, it is technically illegal under the Wireless Telegraphy Act to operate a receiver or transmitter in the airbands without both the radio and the operator being licenced.
Now, on the matter of being caught, if you're not making malicious transmissions, IMHO you will never be caught in a month of sundays. The police have much bigger fish to fry.
Now, on the matter of being caught, if you're not making malicious transmissions, IMHO you will never be caught in a month of sundays. The police have much bigger fish to fry.
Joined: May 2001
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From: 75N 16E
On the subject of streaming airband transmissions onto the Internet...Why do we in the UK see this as a big deal? It could prove to be a) entertaining, b) informative and c) a great learning tool and d) no advantage to anyone with malicious intent...
Cheers
EA
Cheers
EA
Thread Starter
Joined: Sep 2002
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From: Wirral
A big thanks for all your replies. This was my first post on PPrune and it's great that so many are keen to help out.
I'm thinking seriously of transferring my PPL training to Naples in Jan/Feb 2003, mainly to avoid the British weather, so I guess I'll have a different R/T challenge over there. I'm sure there's nothing to it - but for me it's the one side of aviation that I had absolutely no knowledge about before I decided I should stop dreaming and start doing.
One final point on R/T - presumably, once I have an R/T licence it becomes completely legal to listen in?
I'm thinking seriously of transferring my PPL training to Naples in Jan/Feb 2003, mainly to avoid the British weather, so I guess I'll have a different R/T challenge over there. I'm sure there's nothing to it - but for me it's the one side of aviation that I had absolutely no knowledge about before I decided I should stop dreaming and start doing.
One final point on R/T - presumably, once I have an R/T licence it becomes completely legal to listen in?
Joined: Jun 2002
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From: London, UK
Footsie,
Prepare for some rapid-fire US R/T. Very professional there, but still good humoured. Quite a bit of exec. jet traffic to mix in with.
Several differences to CAP413. You will need to adjust back to our phraseology and format.
Enjoy, and don't forget to get the M1 visa before you go.
Prepare for some rapid-fire US R/T. Very professional there, but still good humoured. Quite a bit of exec. jet traffic to mix in with.
Several differences to CAP413. You will need to adjust back to our phraseology and format.
Enjoy, and don't forget to get the M1 visa before you go.
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 272
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From: MAN
Don't think many cops would arrest you for listening.
Especially if you say you are a trainee Pilot.
Just not a great idea to pass on info heard to the press during an Emergency.
I would not want to risk taking it through customs to another country though.
Especially if you say you are a trainee Pilot.
Just not a great idea to pass on info heard to the press during an Emergency.
I would not want to risk taking it through customs to another country though.
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 325
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From: UK
Most of the rules to which you refer have been motivated by the desire to catch people using televisions without a licence i.e its revenue related.
Policemen have no powers in relation to the WT Act. They may accompny RA Inspectors who are the ones with the authority.
It is not illegal to own a receiver or to use it. The deliberate reception of a signal not intended for you is illegal, designed to stop you listening to the authorities and telephone messages, but, if you don't tell anyone or act upon it how will they know? (keep the volume down!)
Policemen have no powers in relation to the WT Act. They may accompny RA Inspectors who are the ones with the authority.
It is not illegal to own a receiver or to use it. The deliberate reception of a signal not intended for you is illegal, designed to stop you listening to the authorities and telephone messages, but, if you don't tell anyone or act upon it how will they know? (keep the volume down!)
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 2,333
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From: gone surfin'
Yes technically it is illegal to use a scanner, (but not to own one), but its horses for courses, and I do recall reading that the law enforcement agencies (the police usually) operate discretion, dependant on circumstances.
Walking around an airshow listening to the Utterly Butterly lot is hardly likely to attract any attention. Being stopped in a built up area with 2 screwdrivers, a car jack and a scanner would probably result in a choice for you - hand over the scanner for confiscation or face court proceedings.
However, very useful in developing an insight into R/T procedure.
Walking around an airshow listening to the Utterly Butterly lot is hardly likely to attract any attention. Being stopped in a built up area with 2 screwdrivers, a car jack and a scanner would probably result in a choice for you - hand over the scanner for confiscation or face court proceedings.
However, very useful in developing an insight into R/T procedure.
Joined: Oct 2000
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From: Brighton. UK. (Via Liverpool).
With the great help from Sarah at the local paper, here is the story.......
UFO TO EARTH: YOU'RE NICKED!
Police set up an astonishing fake UFO sighting to trap people illegally tuning in to police radio.
They shone coloured lights into the night sky above the downs and put out hoax messages about flying saucer reports.
Car-loads turned up hoping to catch a glimps of aliens but instead, they found the boys in blue.
Officers quizzed them about how they had heard of the UFO and about illegally using scanners to listen to police messages.
Two disapointed UFO hunters had scanning equipment confiscated.
Other sky watchers escaped the trap, tipped off by CB radio.
To set their out of this world trap on the hills above Eastbourne, officers used 4 colour filter halogen lamps. Insp Martin Stevens admited the operation was bizarre but effective.
He said "scanning is a serious matter and illegal. Police need to keep radio conversations secret. We may carry out more operations like the UFO sighting."
(dated 12 sept 97)
UFO TO EARTH: YOU'RE NICKED!
Police set up an astonishing fake UFO sighting to trap people illegally tuning in to police radio.
They shone coloured lights into the night sky above the downs and put out hoax messages about flying saucer reports.
Car-loads turned up hoping to catch a glimps of aliens but instead, they found the boys in blue.
Officers quizzed them about how they had heard of the UFO and about illegally using scanners to listen to police messages.
Two disapointed UFO hunters had scanning equipment confiscated.
Other sky watchers escaped the trap, tipped off by CB radio.
To set their out of this world trap on the hills above Eastbourne, officers used 4 colour filter halogen lamps. Insp Martin Stevens admited the operation was bizarre but effective.
He said "scanning is a serious matter and illegal. Police need to keep radio conversations secret. We may carry out more operations like the UFO sighting."
(dated 12 sept 97)
Joined: May 2002
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From: Over the hedge... just!
Be aware some scanners sold in Europe can receive the 800MHz band. In the USA this band is disabled for the same receivers (ICOM etc), and illegal not to be. It was to stop people listening to Analogue Cellular. I'm pretty sure it is still in force, even though the band is now used mainly by digital cellular, which can't be listened into using a simple scanner. So be carefull what you take to the USA.
CC
CC
Joined: Oct 2000
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From: Brighton. UK. (Via Liverpool).
Amazing thread revival.......!!!!!!!
Insp Martin Stevens admited the operation was bizarre but effective.
He said "scanning is a serious matter and illegal. Police need to keep radio conversations secret. We may carry out more operations like the UFO sighting."
He said "scanning is a serious matter and illegal. Police need to keep radio conversations secret. We may carry out more operations like the UFO sighting."
Its the traffic police I can hear not the locals, it bleeds all over the weaker stations and between stations.
Joined: Nov 2002
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From: Nottingham,UK
This used to happen to me with a crappy radio alarm clock. It seemed to somehow get tuned slightly off-station. I would wake up to continuous hissing interspersed with occasional talking. Quite disconcerting really. I never could quite work out what people were talking about and only ever heard one side of the conversation.
Moderator
Joined: Mar 2003
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From: Orlando, Florida
Footsie - nobody has commented on your line
No difference, actually - as your aviation R/T licence is only to give you the legal authority to operate a licensed radio station as fitted to an aircraft.
Handheld radio and scanner etc. are not licensed for operating purposes.
One final point on R/T - presumably, once I have an R/T licence it becomes completely legal to listen in?
Handheld radio and scanner etc. are not licensed for operating purposes.
Official PPRuNe Chaplain
Joined: Apr 2001
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From: Witnesham, Suffolk
Isn't there a separate licence now for a handheld? I seem to recall the CAA taking over from the RA the licensing of aircraft radios, reducing the aircraft licence fee slightly, and introducing a separate licence requirement for handhelds.
I queried the need for a separate licence for mine, and was told I didn't need one if I only used the handheld inside the aircraft.
Rather implies you can use a handheld elsewhere (though what callsign you'd use is beyond me).
I queried the need for a separate licence for mine, and was told I didn't need one if I only used the handheld inside the aircraft.
Rather implies you can use a handheld elsewhere (though what callsign you'd use is beyond me).
Joined: Sep 2000
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From: A small corner of the Belgian Empire
QUOTE: "Funny that. Since I got my loft converted and installed a modern expensive midi-stereo unit, I can clearly pick up police transmissions throught Sussex and beyond. It only happens on that one in the loft, the others around the rest of the house are ok."
BRL
You could try reporting your local polis (with callsigns) to the RCA for interfering with your listening pleasure. I believe all licensed operators have a statutory duty not to interfere with the broadcast bands.
BRL
You could try reporting your local polis (with callsigns) to the RCA for interfering with your listening pleasure. I believe all licensed operators have a statutory duty not to interfere with the broadcast bands.
Joined: Jan 2000
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From: UK
Several people in this thread have said: presumably if you hold a radio licence (meaning a FRTOL) its legal to listen.
Actually its not, the FRTOL entitles the holder to operate a radio station in any aircraft.
The radio station itself must also have a radio station licence whether it be in an aircraft, on the ground, or even a handheld transceiver.
An operator's licence (FRTOL) is only required for aircraft operation. Ground operation is covered by the radio station licence and in certain cases the operator may be required to hold an ATCO licence or a Certificate of Competence to operate.
Actually its not, the FRTOL entitles the holder to operate a radio station in any aircraft.
The radio station itself must also have a radio station licence whether it be in an aircraft, on the ground, or even a handheld transceiver.
An operator's licence (FRTOL) is only required for aircraft operation. Ground operation is covered by the radio station licence and in certain cases the operator may be required to hold an ATCO licence or a Certificate of Competence to operate.
Joined: Oct 2000
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From: Brighton. UK. (Via Liverpool).
Here we go. The offical view of the situation.
So there you have it.
P.S. Steve, your' prize is in the post....
Thank you for your email.
I should give a prize to vintage ATCO for being spot on and directing others to the Radiocommunications Agency website (www.radio.gov.uk) RA169 regarding the use of radio scanners and the law in the UK.
In short you can use a scanner to listen to anything broadcast for general reception, radio amateurs, CB, weather and navigation broadcasts. Unless you are a police officer or work in the emergency services you are not allowed to listen to their communications. You can only listen to other services if you have the permission of the sender. The air show is a good example where the control tower frequencies are publicised and that would be considered permission.
Regards
I should give a prize to vintage ATCO for being spot on and directing others to the Radiocommunications Agency website (www.radio.gov.uk) RA169 regarding the use of radio scanners and the law in the UK.
In short you can use a scanner to listen to anything broadcast for general reception, radio amateurs, CB, weather and navigation broadcasts. Unless you are a police officer or work in the emergency services you are not allowed to listen to their communications. You can only listen to other services if you have the permission of the sender. The air show is a good example where the control tower frequencies are publicised and that would be considered permission.
Regards
P.S. Steve, your' prize is in the post....
Joined: Oct 2000
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From: In the golf tee
StrateandLevel
Can't agree, sorry. It is the first sentance that is more important.
The airshow just being an example, and there is a difference between published and publicised. Also not all frequencys are published.
Can't agree, sorry. It is the first sentance that is more important.
You can only listen to other services if you have the permission of the sender
Joined: Apr 2003
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From: Hants
My boring 2p worth, vintage ATCO's link to the Radio Agnecy's site says:
Anyone who intends to listen to radio transmissions should be aware of the following:
A licence is not required for a radio receiver as long as it is not capable of transmission as well (The Wireless Telegraphy Apparatus (Receivers) (Exemption) Regulations 1989 (SI 1989 No 123). The exception to this is that it is an offence to listen to unlicensed broadcasters (pirates) without a licence. Licences are not issued for this purpose.
Although it is not illegal to sell, buy or own a scanning or other receiver in the UK, it must only be used to listen to transmissions meant for GENERAL RECEPTION. The services that you can listen to include Amateur and Citizens' Band transmissions, licensed broadcast radio and weather and navigation broadcasts.
It is an offence to listen to any other radio services unless you are authorised by a designated person to do so.
So, what is a navigation broadcast?
At the end of the day, like everyone else says, noone will (or rather is unlikely to) lock you up for listening to your local tower. I sometimes tune in to Heathrow approach and listen to a one-sided conversation as the pilots report in, or reply. Gets tedious.
Anyone who intends to listen to radio transmissions should be aware of the following:
A licence is not required for a radio receiver as long as it is not capable of transmission as well (The Wireless Telegraphy Apparatus (Receivers) (Exemption) Regulations 1989 (SI 1989 No 123). The exception to this is that it is an offence to listen to unlicensed broadcasters (pirates) without a licence. Licences are not issued for this purpose.
Although it is not illegal to sell, buy or own a scanning or other receiver in the UK, it must only be used to listen to transmissions meant for GENERAL RECEPTION. The services that you can listen to include Amateur and Citizens' Band transmissions, licensed broadcast radio and weather and navigation broadcasts.
It is an offence to listen to any other radio services unless you are authorised by a designated person to do so.
So, what is a navigation broadcast?
At the end of the day, like everyone else says, noone will (or rather is unlikely to) lock you up for listening to your local tower. I sometimes tune in to Heathrow approach and listen to a one-sided conversation as the pilots report in, or reply. Gets tedious.