Can skydivers look down?
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Can skydivers look down?
There has been certain correspondence in the last two months copies of "Pilot" magazine re parachute drop zones and DZ's.
They related to the rights or otherwise of freefallers to the sky over their drop zones.
I do not question the desirability of staying out of designated DZ's but there are some airfields where parachuting takes place at the same time as power flying and gliding and operations are largely "see and be seen".
There was a tragic collision the other month at Hinton between a parachutist and a glider in such circumstances.
I know that pilots can't see parachutists free falling at 120 mph, even if they were looking for danger vertically above.
Never having parachuted, I would imagine that a freefaller could see a wide area beneath him and take some action to avoid incoming aircraft, especially if it is doing about 40 knots.
So my question is:- Can skydivers look down or do they have to keep watching the horizon to maintain stability?
They related to the rights or otherwise of freefallers to the sky over their drop zones.
I do not question the desirability of staying out of designated DZ's but there are some airfields where parachuting takes place at the same time as power flying and gliding and operations are largely "see and be seen".
There was a tragic collision the other month at Hinton between a parachutist and a glider in such circumstances.
I know that pilots can't see parachutists free falling at 120 mph, even if they were looking for danger vertically above.
Never having parachuted, I would imagine that a freefaller could see a wide area beneath him and take some action to avoid incoming aircraft, especially if it is doing about 40 knots.
So my question is:- Can skydivers look down or do they have to keep watching the horizon to maintain stability?
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You do use the horizon as a reference and turns much as you do when in an aircraft.
Forward, left and right and directly below arent much a problem, behind is unless you keep spinning!!! Obviously fast moving aircraft are a different matter as you sometimes cant things accurately.
Other factors to consider are the viz, skydivers fall through clouds just as aircraft do and you cant always tell whats in them or below them!
Forward, left and right and directly below arent much a problem, behind is unless you keep spinning!!! Obviously fast moving aircraft are a different matter as you sometimes cant things accurately.
Other factors to consider are the viz, skydivers fall through clouds just as aircraft do and you cant always tell whats in them or below them!
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Most aircraft movement in and around DZ's is generally co-ordinated between the pilot and the DZ control or tower (if there is one). DZ's are also notamed and are marked on charts etc.
Unfortunately not all pilots bother about Notams and not all aircraft are fitted with radio's, especially gliders (apologies if i am wrong). Every year, more or less, there is a collision between Skydivers and gliders throughout the world.
On the other hand, the jump pilot is given the all clear for the skydivers to exit the aircraft from the DZ controller who is meant to be the skydivers eye's on the ground.
Bearing in mind, skydivers are heading toward the ground at speeds between 120 - 180 mph depending on what they happen to be doing at the time, different manouvers mean different speeds!!
Now, the answer to your question is yes, they can look around, but when you have approx 60 seconds in freefall, thats from 12000ft, It isn't really a long time to look out for aircraft that shouldn't be there in the first place. I am also a skydiver with a 1000+ jumps
Unfortunately not all pilots bother about Notams and not all aircraft are fitted with radio's, especially gliders (apologies if i am wrong). Every year, more or less, there is a collision between Skydivers and gliders throughout the world.
On the other hand, the jump pilot is given the all clear for the skydivers to exit the aircraft from the DZ controller who is meant to be the skydivers eye's on the ground.
Bearing in mind, skydivers are heading toward the ground at speeds between 120 - 180 mph depending on what they happen to be doing at the time, different manouvers mean different speeds!!
Now, the answer to your question is yes, they can look around, but when you have approx 60 seconds in freefall, thats from 12000ft, It isn't really a long time to look out for aircraft that shouldn't be there in the first place. I am also a skydiver with a 1000+ jumps
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As I said, I've no problem with the concept of avoiding dedicated DZ's. It's the somewhat anarchic shared airfields that scare me.
Couple of points have arisen in the replies though
Are civilian parachutists supposed to jump through cloud?
'see and avoid' is supposed to include seeing approaching fast jets in uncontrolled airspace - with a lot less than 60 seconds between dot on the horizon becoming close-up of Jaguar but a lot of accident reports have blamed the (dead) GA pilot for not seeing it.
Therefore I'm not entirely sure that I buy the argument that there's not enough time for a freefaller to look where he's going.
Thanks for the replies though.
Couple of points have arisen in the replies though
Are civilian parachutists supposed to jump through cloud?
'see and avoid' is supposed to include seeing approaching fast jets in uncontrolled airspace - with a lot less than 60 seconds between dot on the horizon becoming close-up of Jaguar but a lot of accident reports have blamed the (dead) GA pilot for not seeing it.
Therefore I'm not entirely sure that I buy the argument that there's not enough time for a freefaller to look where he's going.
Thanks for the replies though.
With 2014 jumps to date and nearly 1000 of those being camera-jumps, I can assure you skydivers can indeed look down but few do because they are intent on performing complex aerial manoeuvres with others (relative work), or sit-flying, or freestyle where a reference to the horizon is required at all times. Mostly they are looking horizontally, focussed on other skydivers at distances between three and fifty feet in most cases.
As a cameraman I was intent on my target and had extremely limited visibility under the camera-helmet anyway. Almost all my freefall time was spent looking through a ring-sight at a target horizontally in front of me (a lot of tandem jumps). However, as my footage shows, after disengaging from the target I always looked down to find the DZ before opening.
On one such occasion I looked straight down at a Cherookee Archer which was overflying the DZ not all thatfar below me. I didn't have time to make a note of his registration for the incident report but I did the next-best thing...I took a photograph of him which also showed his position relative to the DZ. "Evidence In Camera".
I left it to the DZ operator to take whatever follow-up action he felt appropriate. I never saw the photograph. This particular DZ has been a danger area on the air nav charts since 1970 and still the "I follow Roads" crowd persist in flying straight through the airspace at parachute-opening height. It is solely used for skydiving, not shared with powered aircraft or sailplane operations.
It's only a matter of time...
As a cameraman I was intent on my target and had extremely limited visibility under the camera-helmet anyway. Almost all my freefall time was spent looking through a ring-sight at a target horizontally in front of me (a lot of tandem jumps). However, as my footage shows, after disengaging from the target I always looked down to find the DZ before opening.
On one such occasion I looked straight down at a Cherookee Archer which was overflying the DZ not all thatfar below me. I didn't have time to make a note of his registration for the incident report but I did the next-best thing...I took a photograph of him which also showed his position relative to the DZ. "Evidence In Camera".
I left it to the DZ operator to take whatever follow-up action he felt appropriate. I never saw the photograph. This particular DZ has been a danger area on the air nav charts since 1970 and still the "I follow Roads" crowd persist in flying straight through the airspace at parachute-opening height. It is solely used for skydiving, not shared with powered aircraft or sailplane operations.
It's only a matter of time...
As one who is currently a student skydiver (11 solo jumps to my credit!) I can say that it's not too often that you look down - best to have head up to maintain the body in an "arch" so that you are stable.
Even if you were to look down and see an aircraft then avoiding action would not be guaranteed.
Having spent a fair amount of time at the drop zone over the last six weeks I am somewhat amazed at the numbers of aircraft which penetrate the DZ without calling. Granted that student pilots get lost sometimes but I have witnessed both military (3 basic trainers in formation) and civil aircraft in the DZ.
Anyone who penetrates an active DZ is exposing both themselves and parachutists to considerable danger! AVOID AVOID AVOID!!
Even if you were to look down and see an aircraft then avoiding action would not be guaranteed.
Having spent a fair amount of time at the drop zone over the last six weeks I am somewhat amazed at the numbers of aircraft which penetrate the DZ without calling. Granted that student pilots get lost sometimes but I have witnessed both military (3 basic trainers in formation) and civil aircraft in the DZ.
Anyone who penetrates an active DZ is exposing both themselves and parachutists to considerable danger! AVOID AVOID AVOID!!
Pegase Driver
Question raised and asked twice but not yet ansewered : (possibly the experienced divers can look in their books and reply ) : diving (from high altitude) through clouds, is it really authorised and if so what are the procedures ?
I fly regularly into an (uncontrolled AFIS ) field which is not closed when para jumps are taking place . We just get a warning and have to watch out. The Landing area is about 500m from the runway ,which remains active during the drop(s). When ceiling is about 2000 feet, the divers indeed break through clouds , sometimes quite appart from each other . Do not find this very safe myself I must say.
I fly regularly into an (uncontrolled AFIS ) field which is not closed when para jumps are taking place . We just get a warning and have to watch out. The Landing area is about 500m from the runway ,which remains active during the drop(s). When ceiling is about 2000 feet, the divers indeed break through clouds , sometimes quite appart from each other . Do not find this very safe myself I must say.
