Aircraft Batteries
Thread Starter
Joined: Dec 2005
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From: England
Aircraft Batteries
A number of years back we switched from Gill to Concorde because the Gills didn't seem to last.
We are now having to replace a Concorde at 18 months old over £400.
Aircraft system has been checked out for shorts to earth and is fine.
Seems that the quality is just not there.
Anyone else had problems!
We are now having to replace a Concorde at 18 months old over £400.
Aircraft system has been checked out for shorts to earth and is fine.
Seems that the quality is just not there.
Anyone else had problems!
Joined: Jul 2010
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From: Ansião (PT)
I used a 17Ah Hunter to full satisfaction, for several years. Started at first try even after standing for several weeks in an unheated wintery hangar. I did however manually rotate the prop for a couple of turns first, to break the oil film and to pump up a bit of fuel.
[ edit: hint, indicating type of plane and engine might be helpful ]
[ edit: hint, indicating type of plane and engine might be helpful ]
Last edited by Jan Olieslagers; 16th May 2024 at 17:45.
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 1,856
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From: uk
In 2007, I installed a sealed, lead acid battery recommended by a fellow aviator who sold caravans (permit aircraft). As far as I know it is still in the aircraft having spent 16 winters in cold, damp hangars with long breaks. One morning I discovered that someone had left something switched on and the battery was dead flat. Hand swinging started the engine and the battery does not seem to have suffered. The key is to turn the prop several times after switching on the fuel pump, as Jan recommends above. It always made me laugh when, on a frosty morning with several other mad aviators struggling to get their motors going, ours always started instantly. I could never understand why everybody didn't do it.
Thread Starter
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,581
Likes: 73
From: England
In 2007, I installed a sealed, lead acid battery recommended by a fellow aviator who sold caravans (permit aircraft). As far as I know it is still in the aircraft having spent 16 winters in cold, damp hangars with long breaks. One morning I discovered that someone had left something switched on and the battery was dead flat. Hand swinging started the engine and the battery does not seem to have suffered. The key is to turn the prop several times after switching on the fuel pump, as Jan recommends above. It always made me laugh when, on a frosty morning with several other mad aviators struggling to get their motors going, ours always started instantly. I could never understand why everybody didn't do it.
This seems to be an issue, certified aircraft batteries don't last whatever extravagant claims for them are made.
Non certified batteries seem to perform better.
I know of certified aircraft flying with car batteries so I am not alone with the problem.
High cost and poor longevity do not sit well together.
Lithium batteries may be the answer although cost is higher again.
However a certified Lithium battery should be available for our aircraft this year.
If the new battery pegs out that will probably be the way forward.
Joined: Oct 2006
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From: USA
There is no reason you can't get 7+ years out of your Concorde provided your electrical system is up to spec and you follow the OEMs recommendations. The average service life of the Concordes among my previous customers varied from 6 to 11 years. While there are internal faults at times, regardless of OEM in my experience the vast majority of battery premature failures are electrical system or user induced.
Some of the common ones are allowing the battery OCV to drop below 12.5v/25.0v, use of improper battery chargers, and excessive discharges without proper recharge. Each event basically can take months or years off the life of the battery. Unfortunately, an aircrafts electrical system is usually the last item that receives regular review...at least on my side of the pond. But this is a common issue here as well for the same reasons mentioned earlier.
Have you checked for parasitic drains?
Have you checked for voltage drops on both the positive and ground side of the systems?
Have you performed a capacity check to check the health of your battery?
Some of the common ones are allowing the battery OCV to drop below 12.5v/25.0v, use of improper battery chargers, and excessive discharges without proper recharge. Each event basically can take months or years off the life of the battery. Unfortunately, an aircrafts electrical system is usually the last item that receives regular review...at least on my side of the pond. But this is a common issue here as well for the same reasons mentioned earlier.
Have you checked for parasitic drains?
Have you checked for voltage drops on both the positive and ground side of the systems?
Have you performed a capacity check to check the health of your battery?
Joined: Feb 2006
Aviation Qualifications: LAME
Posts: 1,129
Likes: 168
From: Station 42
Concur with wrench1.
Is the aircraft a Piper, by the way. There was a Service Bulletin many years ago about replacing the original aluminium battery leads with copper because of high resistances due to corrosion. I've changed one or two in the distant past because of that.
Is the aircraft a Piper, by the way. There was a Service Bulletin many years ago about replacing the original aluminium battery leads with copper because of high resistances due to corrosion. I've changed one or two in the distant past because of that.
Thread Starter
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,581
Likes: 73
From: England
There is no reason you can't get 7+ years out of your Concorde provided your electrical system is up to spec and you follow the OEMs recommendations. The average service life of the Concordes among my previous customers varied from 6 to 11 years. While there are internal faults at times, regardless of OEM in my experience the vast majority of battery premature failures are electrical system or user induced.
Some of the common ones are allowing the battery OCV to drop below 12.5v/25.0v, use of improper battery chargers, and excessive discharges without proper recharge. Each event basically can take months or years off the life of the battery. Unfortunately, an aircrafts electrical system is usually the last item that receives regular review...at least on my side of the pond. But this is a common issue here as well for the same reasons mentioned earlier.
Have you checked for parasitic drains?
Have you checked for voltage drops on both the positive and ground side of the systems?
Have you performed a capacity check to check the health of your battery?
Some of the common ones are allowing the battery OCV to drop below 12.5v/25.0v, use of improper battery chargers, and excessive discharges without proper recharge. Each event basically can take months or years off the life of the battery. Unfortunately, an aircrafts electrical system is usually the last item that receives regular review...at least on my side of the pond. But this is a common issue here as well for the same reasons mentioned earlier.
Have you checked for parasitic drains?
Have you checked for voltage drops on both the positive and ground side of the systems?
Have you performed a capacity check to check the health of your battery?
Has had a new voltage regulator and a new alternator recently.
Cap check failed!!!!.
We are operating no differently now from how we have been over the last 30 years.
New Concorde fitted today so I will give an update in a couple of years!!!!!!!!
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From: USA
Joined: Feb 2006
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From: 11 GROUP
Batteries need 'maintenance'
As alluded if you you fit and forget then they will 'drop off' regardless of price.
Problem is they can sit around for weeks and then the capacity may have dropped down so when you do turn up for a quick whiz about (and have done a walk around that checks every mortal system) 'that requires power on' by the time you go for a start it will struggle and possibly lead to a carb fire.
Depending on your 'parking/hangar' situation a simple solar charger may be an option but the truth is lack of use is not good and that goes for the engine.
Also it is not unusual for pilots not to know about the the need for 'pre heat' when the temp falls below a certain level. The engine/airframe manufacturer usually have a section about that in the handbook and it not surprising when you consider how much effort it requires to 'churn' the oil around in a stone cold donk.
When I had to operate a C180/182 in the winter (parked in the open) I found that 15-20 mins with a fan heater directed from below via the cowling gill (and possibly with temp muffs in the air intakes) made for an instant start and of course in the real cold weather flying world 'oil dilution' may be an option.
Batteries are like your health ' YOU have to look after it' !!!
Problem is they can sit around for weeks and then the capacity may have dropped down so when you do turn up for a quick whiz about (and have done a walk around that checks every mortal system) 'that requires power on' by the time you go for a start it will struggle and possibly lead to a carb fire.
Depending on your 'parking/hangar' situation a simple solar charger may be an option but the truth is lack of use is not good and that goes for the engine.
Also it is not unusual for pilots not to know about the the need for 'pre heat' when the temp falls below a certain level. The engine/airframe manufacturer usually have a section about that in the handbook and it not surprising when you consider how much effort it requires to 'churn' the oil around in a stone cold donk.
When I had to operate a C180/182 in the winter (parked in the open) I found that 15-20 mins with a fan heater directed from below via the cowling gill (and possibly with temp muffs in the air intakes) made for an instant start and of course in the real cold weather flying world 'oil dilution' may be an option.
Batteries are like your health ' YOU have to look after it' !!!
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 1,856
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From: uk
POBJOY said:
You are absolutely correct in my experience. I forgot to mention in my previous post that, in Winter, it was a vital part of the morning starting procedure. Trying to get fuel from a carburettor, up through a vertical, cold induction tube on an 0-200 was extremely difficult, setting up a case for over priming and risk of fire which did actually happen before we established our current procedure. As far as I could see, nobody else did this even after watching our regular, instant engine start while they struggled to get theirs going.
Also it is not unusual for pilots not to know about the the need for 'pre heat' when the temp falls below a certain level.
Joined: Apr 2009
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From: USA
Went through a battery every year or so on a variety of twin Cessnas at $1000/pop. Spent a couple hundred bucks on a good battery minder, and my last one crapped out after 10 years. Buy it, install it and plug it in when it’s not in use.
Joined: Apr 2009
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From: USA
Joined: Oct 2006
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From: USA
In hangars with no power or in situations as yours, and depending on the length of non-use, I would recommend to an owner to disconnect the battery at a minimum or remove the battery to an alternate location to maintain a proper state of charge. But even disconnected a battery will still discharge so for extended periods of non-use its better to remove it. As I recall that is still permited for an owner to perform on your side?
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 29
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From: England
We've certainly found the sealed Concorde batteries are much longer-lasting than the Gill batteries. The last Concorde failure after 5 years was almost certainly precipitated by an early-mortality voltage regulator after a few months of service. Also note that sometimes intelligent charging of a battery that has failed the capacity test can restore it to suitable performance.
Joined: Apr 2008
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From: Ashwell
Apologies for resurrecting this thread but the Gill G-25 on my airaft has died after two years, due in the main part from not having been used due to weather and maintenance issues. It would appear I am not alone as several dealers are out of stock so I've taken the plunge and bought a Concorde RG25X. The thing is the dealer said It could go straight on to the aircraft from the box. The bumpf with the battery suggests several checks to be completed before use. Advice please.
Joined: Feb 2006
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From: Station 42
They're pretty much an unpack, check for obvious case damage and install. You could check the voltage with a meter beforehand (should be 12.75 to 14.0 volts if I remember correctly) but they do come pre-charged and don't require maintenance. The important thing to remember (as with any battery) is the negative cable should be taken off first and put on last.
(stevef, retired aircraft engineer)
(stevef, retired aircraft engineer)
Joined: Oct 2006
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From: USA