Hour building in US
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Hour building in US
I am planning to go to the States to do some hour building. Can anyone suggest a good school that is cheap and will allow exclusive use of the aircraft for the hour building?
I am considering Naples in Florida. Also any suggestions for a good route to build 50 hours?
I am considering Naples in Florida. Also any suggestions for a good route to build 50 hours?
Last edited by Gavin Sweet; 2nd Sep 2002 at 14:50.
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If you're just renting then there are cheaper places than Naples, also they won't let you fly to the Bahamas. I rented last month from an airfield in mid Florida and flew as far east as the Bahamas, south to Key West and as far west as New Orleans.
New Orleans Lakefront is handy for visiting the city and they'll probably let you fly around for some sightseeing. Mobile Downtown (not Regional) is a great airport, with mothballed 747s and various airliners getting work done that you can walk around. Pensacola is quite scenic. Tallahassee Regional is also a nice stop though watch out for the hilly runway, and I had some sort of military fighter jet do a go-around right above me during my flare cos he'd been coming in too fast (or maybe I was slower than Tower expected!). Anyway I could go on for hours about all the cool airports.
Going back to routes, I'd recommend going west, to Texas or all the way to California. You can spend a lot of time island hopping in the Bahamas, expensive layovers though. Doing milkrounds around southern Florida will get boring after a few days but you can log quite a few hours visiting some neat airports in the state.
New Orleans Lakefront is handy for visiting the city and they'll probably let you fly around for some sightseeing. Mobile Downtown (not Regional) is a great airport, with mothballed 747s and various airliners getting work done that you can walk around. Pensacola is quite scenic. Tallahassee Regional is also a nice stop though watch out for the hilly runway, and I had some sort of military fighter jet do a go-around right above me during my flare cos he'd been coming in too fast (or maybe I was slower than Tower expected!). Anyway I could go on for hours about all the cool airports.
Going back to routes, I'd recommend going west, to Texas or all the way to California. You can spend a lot of time island hopping in the Bahamas, expensive layovers though. Doing milkrounds around southern Florida will get boring after a few days but you can log quite a few hours visiting some neat airports in the state.
Last edited by carb; 3rd Sep 2002 at 18:02.
The Oracle
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carb,
You might want to specify which schools in Naples do not allow their aircraft to fly to the Bahamas. Naples Air Center, Inc. does allow its aircraft to fly to the Bahamas.
There are plenty of places to rent aircraft that are cheaper than Naples Air Center, Inc. We believe that a few extra Dollars per hours are worth the extra maintenance provided.
Happy Flying,
Capt. Richard J. Gentil, Pres.
Naples Air Center, Inc.
You might want to specify which schools in Naples do not allow their aircraft to fly to the Bahamas. Naples Air Center, Inc. does allow its aircraft to fly to the Bahamas.
There are plenty of places to rent aircraft that are cheaper than Naples Air Center, Inc. We believe that a few extra Dollars per hours are worth the extra maintenance provided.
Happy Flying,
Capt. Richard J. Gentil, Pres.
Naples Air Center, Inc.
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NAC Inc -- I was told by your good selves that you required 200hrs Total Time and 25hrs dual in make and model to be flown for any Bahamas trips, or that an instructor went along (would they be volunteering?). That's not much use for hour-building.
Having flown some crap aircraft I'd tend to agree it's worth a few extra bucks for nice planes, though!
Having flown some crap aircraft I'd tend to agree it's worth a few extra bucks for nice planes, though!
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carb,
Part of the problem stems from Sept. 11th. Since then, there are been huge hikes in insurance rates over those the year prior, in the 40% to 60% range, and higher time restrictions for renting aircraft.
I carry full insurance on all my aircraft along with initial hospitalization, (yes englishal, a shameless plug I know
), for anyone that rents an aircraft from me. The insurance companies have set the higher rental restrictions industry wide on these policies. The only way around it would be to drop the insurance on the fleet. I am not prepared to do that, so everyone has to live with the higher time restrictions on the Seminole and Arrow for flying to the Bahamas.
Happy Flying,
Richard
Part of the problem stems from Sept. 11th. Since then, there are been huge hikes in insurance rates over those the year prior, in the 40% to 60% range, and higher time restrictions for renting aircraft.
I carry full insurance on all my aircraft along with initial hospitalization, (yes englishal, a shameless plug I know
), for anyone that rents an aircraft from me. The insurance companies have set the higher rental restrictions industry wide on these policies. The only way around it would be to drop the insurance on the fleet. I am not prepared to do that, so everyone has to live with the higher time restrictions on the Seminole and Arrow for flying to the Bahamas.Happy Flying,
Richard
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Hour building in US
Well I am wondering why you really want to go to the U.S. specially since September 11.
There are some pretty good places in Europe where you can get rentals as cheap as in the U.S, with the advantage of being next to your door step.
I can give you more information if you want to.
There are some pretty good places in Europe where you can get rentals as cheap as in the U.S, with the advantage of being next to your door step.
I can give you more information if you want to.
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Thanks for the info.
Marlboro_2002 I would appreciate any info on cheap schools in Europe. Thanks for the route info carb.
I have over 200 hours with an FAA restricted, but is that good enough for Naples to let me take the aircraft over a couple of weeks for the hour building including any trips to the Bahamas?
What are your views on Ormond Beach Aviation?
Marlboro_2002 I would appreciate any info on cheap schools in Europe. Thanks for the route info carb.
I have over 200 hours with an FAA restricted, but is that good enough for Naples to let me take the aircraft over a couple of weeks for the hour building including any trips to the Bahamas?
What are your views on Ormond Beach Aviation?
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Naples is quite good but I consider it to be very expensive compared to other U.S schools. The only reason people go there is because they know the name from adverts.
About xxxxx ...well I never went there personnaly but 3 friends of mine had problems while there regarding money issues. They had problems with the aircrafts since they kept having to go for repairs. Because of that they came back without all their hours......and their money!
Take care!
About xxxxx ...well I never went there personnaly but 3 friends of mine had problems while there regarding money issues. They had problems with the aircrafts since they kept having to go for repairs. Because of that they came back without all their hours......and their money!
Take care!
Last edited by PPRuNe Towers; 3rd Sep 2002 at 19:07.
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Thanks Marlboro_2002.
I guess, they are cheap but also are not willing to give you exclusive use of their aircraft, even if you agree to do quite a few hours each day. The poor maintenance means if you go far away, then you might be stuck.
Guess that rules them out.
I guess, they are cheap but also are not willing to give you exclusive use of their aircraft, even if you agree to do quite a few hours each day. The poor maintenance means if you go far away, then you might be stuck.
Guess that rules them out.
Last edited by PPRuNe Towers; 3rd Sep 2002 at 19:08.
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Just on hour building generally, something to watch when choosing a rental is the rate that fuel is refunded at, some places put a ridiculously low cap on the price meaning you might be effectively paying an extra few dollars per hour if refueling elsewhere. Also, ask to read their contract and check the detail. For example, should you have a technical problem someplace then you don't want to be liable for the handling/parking charges that the local FBO may apply.
Has anyone done a league table of fuel refund rates, and other contract details? Seems to me that such things make a significant cost different once everything is totalled up. Just comparing the per-hour rental rates is a small part of the picture.
Accommodation value-for-money is another thing that bugs me, eg $35/night at some outfits will get you a discount rate at a very nice hotel, whilst at others all you're getting for the same cost is spartan student accomodation.
Has anyone done a league table of fuel refund rates, and other contract details? Seems to me that such things make a significant cost different once everything is totalled up. Just comparing the per-hour rental rates is a small part of the picture.
Accommodation value-for-money is another thing that bugs me, eg $35/night at some outfits will get you a discount rate at a very nice hotel, whilst at others all you're getting for the same cost is spartan student accomodation.
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There are other less obvious places to go in the US apart from Florida and California. I just spent the weekend with a plane rented from Classic Aviation at Addison (ADS) in Dallas. It's a cheap place to get to (AA main hub) and stay, the weather is not as variable as the gulf, and there are loads of airfields all over the central south (TX, OK, LA, AR), both towered and uncontrolled. There are several FBOs at Addison, check on Airnav. Classic were very helpful and well organised and I rented a Warrior for 2 days for $70/hour.
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carb
Just on hour building generally, something to watch when choosing a rental is the rate that fuel is refunded at, some places put a ridiculously low cap on the price meaning you might be effectively paying an extra few dollars per hour if refueling elsewhere.
This is certainly something that all renters should be aware of, and it can lead to some bad feeling from the rentor, but look at it from the point of view of the operator.
Rental in the US is very competitive, and it is amazing that some operators make any money at all (and I am sure it is the same in the UK, but fuel prices are not as diverse).
The operator probably has his own fuel operation, and buys his fuel at wholesale prices, lets say $1.50 per gallon. He will sell retail at (say) $2.50 per gallon. As his rental operation buys in bulk, he might therefore legitimately decide to sell to his rental operation at a discounted rate, say $2.00 per gallon. This makes him more competitive on his rental, and also lets him make a small profit on his fuel operation. He therefore will only refund you $2.00 per gallon, i.e. the rental operation's cost for the fuel.
If you go out to another airfield and purchase at their retail rate, say $2.75 per gallon, do you really expect your operator to eat 75c per gallon? That could mean he makes a loss on your rental. All businesses have to control costs, especially ones like plane rental ones where profit margins are slim, and just letting the rentor pick any fuel price out there is too much risk for the operator to take.
Airnav.com has an excellent utility where you can find out the cheapest fuel in an area. If you are flying in the US, and think you might have to buy some fuel, you should use it.
Just on hour building generally, something to watch when choosing a rental is the rate that fuel is refunded at, some places put a ridiculously low cap on the price meaning you might be effectively paying an extra few dollars per hour if refueling elsewhere.
This is certainly something that all renters should be aware of, and it can lead to some bad feeling from the rentor, but look at it from the point of view of the operator.
Rental in the US is very competitive, and it is amazing that some operators make any money at all (and I am sure it is the same in the UK, but fuel prices are not as diverse).
The operator probably has his own fuel operation, and buys his fuel at wholesale prices, lets say $1.50 per gallon. He will sell retail at (say) $2.50 per gallon. As his rental operation buys in bulk, he might therefore legitimately decide to sell to his rental operation at a discounted rate, say $2.00 per gallon. This makes him more competitive on his rental, and also lets him make a small profit on his fuel operation. He therefore will only refund you $2.00 per gallon, i.e. the rental operation's cost for the fuel.
If you go out to another airfield and purchase at their retail rate, say $2.75 per gallon, do you really expect your operator to eat 75c per gallon? That could mean he makes a loss on your rental. All businesses have to control costs, especially ones like plane rental ones where profit margins are slim, and just letting the rentor pick any fuel price out there is too much risk for the operator to take.
Airnav.com has an excellent utility where you can find out the cheapest fuel in an area. If you are flying in the US, and think you might have to buy some fuel, you should use it.
Last edited by slim_slag; 3rd Sep 2002 at 23:20.
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Have only flown rotary and in nearly 6 years used the same 2 rental/schools, (good service makes me stick with a company), but both refunded fuel at cost with receipts.
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Slim Slag But don't forget, our cheapest AVGAS prices are around $4.50 / US Gall in the UK, so I'd reckon that quibbling over whether you pay $2 or $2.50 is not the most important thing in a UK aviator's brain when he comes across the pond! Also, with our typical hire rates for a Warrior being around $150 / hr, the whole deal seems like a good 'un! 
Hang about, let me just go check the AA flight schedules....... I'm sure there's one goes around lunchtime......
Hang about, let me just go check the AA flight schedules....... I'm sure there's one goes around lunchtime......
