Wales
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 896
Likes: 0
From: Strathaven Airfield
WWW,
I have an old crate with a dodgy engine, think I'll move it to the English/Welsh border and hope the donkey lasts until I reach Welsh airspace,
I'll be safe then, 'cos I won't be allowed to land!
Might only put a few litres of gas in it too, and save money on the fuel.
An infinite flying machine!!!
I have an old crate with a dodgy engine, think I'll move it to the English/Welsh border and hope the donkey lasts until I reach Welsh airspace,
I'll be safe then, 'cos I won't be allowed to land!
Might only put a few litres of gas in it too, and save money on the fuel.
An infinite flying machine!!!
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 0
Likes: 0
From: UK,Twighlight Zone
Moderator
Joined: Jun 1999
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 2,903
Likes: 32
From: MAN. UK.
Watching with interest as my aircraft is based at Hawarden so is one mile inside Wales. I'm sitting at home in Cheshire with GA activity buzzing in all directions but I can't fly until the Welsh Office revue the current rules on the 28th. I've done my health and engineering test flights and it's another two weeks until my next permitted trip. If they don't change the rules this week I'll remove it to England and have to pay for two hangarage places.
As for overflying Wales from England then the same principle as driving applies. You didn't need to go there, you've no reason to be there and if you wind up sitting in a field there you're on your own for an explanation. Your insurance company might also take a dim view if they were so minded to get out of paying. For now it's worth staying on the right side of the border.
As for overflying Wales from England then the same principle as driving applies. You didn't need to go there, you've no reason to be there and if you wind up sitting in a field there you're on your own for an explanation. Your insurance company might also take a dim view if they were so minded to get out of paying. For now it's worth staying on the right side of the border.
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 744
Likes: 5
From: london
Not sure I agree.....The airspace was not devolved nor has it been closed. Aircraft fly over countries without permission to land all the time. If I fly London Perth I fly over many countries with many lockdown rules I am ignorant of but their airspace isnt closed.
So the Welsh authorities have no jurisdiction over my flight.
If I have an emergency and have to land, it was not intentional and Force Majeure. You cant be prosecuted for it in any case, but even under the Coronavirus Regulations there is no rule that is broken as you 'left your home' in England which is legal. The Welsh police are stopping people not for driving along the road but for travelling to somewhere in Wales for something that isnt lawful ie the purpose of the journey in Wales. I wonder what would happen if you told Officer Plod you were just going for a 'run' and not stopping in Wales....
So the Welsh authorities have no jurisdiction over my flight.
If I have an emergency and have to land, it was not intentional and Force Majeure. You cant be prosecuted for it in any case, but even under the Coronavirus Regulations there is no rule that is broken as you 'left your home' in England which is legal. The Welsh police are stopping people not for driving along the road but for travelling to somewhere in Wales for something that isnt lawful ie the purpose of the journey in Wales. I wonder what would happen if you told Officer Plod you were just going for a 'run' and not stopping in Wales....
Moderator
Joined: Jun 1999
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 2,903
Likes: 32
From: MAN. UK.
It is a mess and I agree there is no self administered jurisdiction of the airspace but they do have the right to legislate on it if desired. It's just cheaper to devolve management of their airspace to the CAA. Overflights by Commercial Air Traffic or aircraft carrying out Aerial Work were always going to be exempt. Remember we're talking about recreational flying only.
Like England up to the present restrictions, GA is not illegal, it was stopped simply by utilising the travel ban that still currently exists in Wales. Whilst you can drive any distance in England, it's still supposed to be for an approved purpose. In Wales currently 'staying local' (whatever that means) is still being enforced so as I said, if you wound up having to explain why you are sitting in a field you'd have few friends to turn to for support.
Perhaps this says it better than me:
Wales: Later
Like England up to the present restrictions, GA is not illegal, it was stopped simply by utilising the travel ban that still currently exists in Wales. Whilst you can drive any distance in England, it's still supposed to be for an approved purpose. In Wales currently 'staying local' (whatever that means) is still being enforced so as I said, if you wound up having to explain why you are sitting in a field you'd have few friends to turn to for support.
Perhaps this says it better than me:
Wales: Later
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 18
Likes: 0
From: UK
BoeingBoy has evidently thought it through rather more thoroughly than you appear to have done, and didn't seem to find my comment as sidesplittingly hilarious as you did
Being up against plod and possibly uninsured, as BoeingBoy helpfully explains for those who can't think it through, is probably enough to wipe the smile off anyone's face.
More
than 
WWW
Being up against plod and possibly uninsured, as BoeingBoy helpfully explains for those who can't think it through, is probably enough to wipe the smile off anyone's face.
More
than WWW
Last edited by Wee Willy Winky; 25th May 2020 at 18:04. Reason: Un-correcting auto-corrected "BeingBoy' to BoeingBoy
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 0
Likes: 0
From: UK,Twighlight Zone
BoeingBoy has evidently thought it through rather more thoroughly than you appear to have done, and didn't seem to find my comment as sidesplittingly hilarious as you did
Being up against plod and possibly uninsured, as BoeingBoy helpfully explains for those who can't think it through, is probably enough to wipe the smile off anyone's face.
More than
WWW
Being up against plod and possibly uninsured, as BoeingBoy helpfully explains for those who can't think it through, is probably enough to wipe the smile off anyone's face.
More
than WWW
So yes, I will go back to finding it sidesplittingly funny.......
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 744
Likes: 5
From: london
Absolutely S-Works. The Welsh Government can only legislate on specific areas set out in the devolution legislation. Doesnt include airspace.
GA WAS illegal under section 6 of the Coronavius Regulations as it was not an exceptional circumstance nor one of the 'reasonable excuses' listed in 6 (1) under that section. The CAA merely clarified it to allow for maintenance. It is now legal to travel unimpeded throughout England for as long and far as you like for leisure purposes and GA is a leisure purpose.
Commercial and arial use of airspace was never exempted, merely allowed as the crew were permitted under section 6 as indeed were GA flights eg for going to work
GA WAS illegal under section 6 of the Coronavius Regulations as it was not an exceptional circumstance nor one of the 'reasonable excuses' listed in 6 (1) under that section. The CAA merely clarified it to allow for maintenance. It is now legal to travel unimpeded throughout England for as long and far as you like for leisure purposes and GA is a leisure purpose.
Commercial and arial use of airspace was never exempted, merely allowed as the crew were permitted under section 6 as indeed were GA flights eg for going to work
Moderator
Joined: Jun 1999
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 2,903
Likes: 32
From: MAN. UK.
I'm with you Black Sun. Aircraft stuck at Hawarden watching English pilots fly out of their airfields overhead Wales totally ignoring the wishes of the Welsh Government. However once the revision is announced on Friday we too hopefully can get back to aviating. Sadly though looking at the 'Traffic Light' system they've published, leisure travel does not feature until in the Amber section which may yet be another month away if they only go from Lock Down to Red. If turns out to be the case then I'm taking the aircraft into England for the duration as I'm fed up of playing the game for the sake of one mile!
Joined: Apr 1999
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 2,648
Likes: 307
From: In front of a computer
then I'm taking the aircraft into England for the duration
Apart from the fact it's closed more than it's open
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 15
Likes: 1
From: chester
Over on the Mil Aircrew forum.
Visiting Wales did not seem to bother this guy!!
This is the rumour doing the jungle drums on Whatsapp....
A Pilatus PC-12 registration N412MD departed Fairoaks to fly to RAF Valley. RAF Valley was closed (bank holiday Monday) with work in progress scheduled on RWY19 barrier and families on the periphery of the airfield. At 1250L the ac called Valley Tower freq several times (reported by Valley Aviation Society) then landed on RWY19 and parked at ASP 5 (adjacent to the beach). The Fire Section noted the aircraft and responded, thinking the aircraft was in distress. Having confirmed that the aircraft was not in distress, the Pilot was verbally held at the ac steps by the Fire Crew Manager. At 1300L the MPGS attended and North Wales Police (NWP) were informed. The Pilot informed the Crew Manager that he had flown from London to go to the beach. When informed that this was a military airfield and that the coronavirus restrictions were still present in Wales the pilot stated that ‘it was ok, because he had it 2 months ago’.
The Pilot stated that he had located the airfield on Google Earth and noted from Wikipedia that Anglesey Airport served civilian traffic. The RAFP arrived at ASP5 and searched the ac for any other occupants. The pilot was the only person on board and there was nothing of a suspicious nature on the ac. The Pilot’s details were recorded. A/OC Ops Sqn informed the pilot that he did not have the authority to leave the airfield until it opened at 0800L on 26 May 20. The Pilot stated that he was leaving anyway. A/OC Ops Sqn and the Crew Manager elected to not block the aircraft and let it depart. At 1415L the aircraft departed to Fairoaks.
*allegedly
This is the rumour doing the jungle drums on Whatsapp....
A Pilatus PC-12 registration N412MD departed Fairoaks to fly to RAF Valley. RAF Valley was closed (bank holiday Monday) with work in progress scheduled on RWY19 barrier and families on the periphery of the airfield. At 1250L the ac called Valley Tower freq several times (reported by Valley Aviation Society) then landed on RWY19 and parked at ASP 5 (adjacent to the beach). The Fire Section noted the aircraft and responded, thinking the aircraft was in distress. Having confirmed that the aircraft was not in distress, the Pilot was verbally held at the ac steps by the Fire Crew Manager. At 1300L the MPGS attended and North Wales Police (NWP) were informed. The Pilot informed the Crew Manager that he had flown from London to go to the beach. When informed that this was a military airfield and that the coronavirus restrictions were still present in Wales the pilot stated that ‘it was ok, because he had it 2 months ago’.
The Pilot stated that he had located the airfield on Google Earth and noted from Wikipedia that Anglesey Airport served civilian traffic. The RAFP arrived at ASP5 and searched the ac for any other occupants. The pilot was the only person on board and there was nothing of a suspicious nature on the ac. The Pilot’s details were recorded. A/OC Ops Sqn informed the pilot that he did not have the authority to leave the airfield until it opened at 0800L on 26 May 20. The Pilot stated that he was leaving anyway. A/OC Ops Sqn and the Crew Manager elected to not block the aircraft and let it depart. At 1415L the aircraft departed to Fairoaks.
*allegedly
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 203
Likes: 0
From: North Wales / Ontario
I also have my aircraft at Hawarden with a nice new permit which I can’t use. I’ve been in lockdown because of my age since I escaped New York on March 13. I think I may do a Dom tomorrow.
HD
HD
Moderator
Joined: Jun 1999
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 2,903
Likes: 32
From: MAN. UK.
Yeah Hen. Go for it. I'm sure your eyes need a workout after being at home for so long. 
You'll be owed an engine health flight by the system so you have adequate reason.
Fingers crossed for the WAG going Amber tomorrow anyway.
Have a good flight.
You'll be owed an engine health flight by the system so you have adequate reason.
Fingers crossed for the WAG going Amber tomorrow anyway.
Have a good flight.
Joined: Jan 2008
Aviation Qualifications: PPL
Posts: 187
Likes: 10
From: Third rock from the sun.
More than a rumour on Whatsapp. Check the Military Aviation thread on Prune. Is it possible to trace the pilot of an 'N' reg aircraft. I'd love to know who this brass-necked blighter is.
Joined: Jul 2016
Aviation Qualifications: PPL
Posts: 226
Likes: 25
From: Broughton, UK
As of today, Friday 29th, we are allowed to drive up to 5 miles in Wales. Fortunately for me the border is only 1 mile away, before the English unlimited mileage rules apply.
Maybe those that have their aircraft in Hawarden, can now access it, if they can drive less than 5 miles to the airfield.
From the M56, through Shotton, it is about 5 miles.
From the A55 Chester Southerly Bypass, the airfield is less that 2 miles away, depending upon which entrance you use.
.
Maybe those that have their aircraft in Hawarden, can now access it, if they can drive less than 5 miles to the airfield.
From the M56, through Shotton, it is about 5 miles.
From the A55 Chester Southerly Bypass, the airfield is less that 2 miles away, depending upon which entrance you use.
.