Special Branch - Newcastle A/p
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Special Branch - Newcastle A/p
Word coming through (unofficially at this time) that Special Branch at Newcastle A/P are insisting that ALL GA FLIGHTs , irrespective of destination, must be cleared by them with 12 hrs notice. Additionally, apparently all incoming flights must also clear with them.
Not seen it posted officially (yet) but if this is occurring then its worrying:
(a) will it proliferate to other UK airfields?
(b) is it permanent or is there a scare on (coming up to 9/11 anniv)?
(c) How can they do this/enforce this without notifying officially (NOTAMS etc).
If anyone else can shed light on this rumour, then please do so...
Not seen it posted officially (yet) but if this is occurring then its worrying:
(a) will it proliferate to other UK airfields?
(b) is it permanent or is there a scare on (coming up to 9/11 anniv)?
(c) How can they do this/enforce this without notifying officially (NOTAMS etc).
If anyone else can shed light on this rumour, then please do so...
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Indeed a very worrying development and if you ask me that is overstepping the mark full stop.
How on earth would training be conducted then?!
If true its bang out of order....welcome to the nanny state....more hitler than nanny in recent times ive noticed
How on earth would training be conducted then?!
If true its bang out of order....welcome to the nanny state....more hitler than nanny in recent times ive noticed
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This is confirmed now.
Special Branch requires notice of the pax and crew details of all aircraft arriving and departing Newcastle Airport, regardless of whether they are domestic, CTA or other. They are invoking their post 9-11 powers, and claim that other airports will follow suit in short order.
Whilst his starting offer to me was 12 hours notice, the Special Branch officer I spoke to conceded that this was likely to be impractical for General Aviation Ops, and that "as much notice as possible" would be appreciated. It was suggested that Samson would be extracting GenDec forms (or similar) from clients.
So far as I can see, Teesside still has no such requirement, and neither do any of the other major airports that I fly into on a regular basis.
A case of people with too little work to do, or a vital measure to protect our national security ?
Special Branch requires notice of the pax and crew details of all aircraft arriving and departing Newcastle Airport, regardless of whether they are domestic, CTA or other. They are invoking their post 9-11 powers, and claim that other airports will follow suit in short order.
Whilst his starting offer to me was 12 hours notice, the Special Branch officer I spoke to conceded that this was likely to be impractical for General Aviation Ops, and that "as much notice as possible" would be appreciated. It was suggested that Samson would be extracting GenDec forms (or similar) from clients.
So far as I can see, Teesside still has no such requirement, and neither do any of the other major airports that I fly into on a regular basis.
A case of people with too little work to do, or a vital measure to protect our national security ?
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Is this a wind-up??? What about just turning up on the spur of the moment and wanting to go off somewhere not knowing about this. Are they going to make you wait a few hours then..
Seems a bit strange that if it is to do with 9/11 then why Newcastle I would have thought local London airports would be better to start from, I mean what do they thing they are going to do? Fly into the the Tyne bridge....
2Donks.....I think its a case of people with too little work to do rather than a vital measure to protect our national security. Why leave it almost a year if its the latter..Strange indeed...
Anyway, how about a fly-in there next weekend............
Seems a bit strange that if it is to do with 9/11 then why Newcastle I would have thought local London airports would be better to start from, I mean what do they thing they are going to do? Fly into the the Tyne bridge....2Donks.....I think its a case of people with too little work to do rather than a vital measure to protect our national security. Why leave it almost a year if its the latter..Strange indeed...
Anyway, how about a fly-in there next weekend............
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This had me worried!
I’ve spoken to Newcastle airport this is wrong, only destinations governed by the prevention of terrorism act are governed by the 12 hour notification requirement.
I’ve spoken to Newcastle airport this is wrong, only destinations governed by the prevention of terrorism act are governed by the 12 hour notification requirement.
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The problem is that The Terrorism Act 2000 was amended last year by the Anti-terrorism, Crime & Security Act 2001
http://www.hmso.gov.uk/acts/acts2001/10024--n.htm#119
This seems to include domestic flights !!
http://www.hmso.gov.uk/acts/acts2001/10024--n.htm#119
This seems to include domestic flights !!
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I've just had a look at the act to which this amendment refers. I'm no lawyer but the paragraph referred to is given below and my reading is that the rights of an examining officer (police, immigration or customs) are extended by the amendment to "allow" request for passenger information for flights or boat journeys that are wholly within the United Kingdom. There does not appear to be any "requirement" for an examining officer to request this for all flights (or boat trips).
This seems sensible. A policeman is now allowed to ask the captain of any aircraft whether it is flying within the UK or coming from abroad for details of passengers and crew. I would read this as meaning that they have the power now to be able to ask who was on that aircraft for any flight they do not like the look of.
What would not be sensible would be for them to "require" this for every single flight (or boat trip). Where would you draw the line?
Am I missing something??
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
17. - (1) This paragraph applies to a ship or aircraft which-
(a) arrives or is expected to arrive in Great Britain from the Republic of Ireland, Northern Ireland or any of the Islands, or
(b) arrives or is expected to arrive in Northern Ireland from Great Britain, the Republic of Ireland or any of the Islands.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The above is replaced by...
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"(1) This paragraph applies to a ship or aircraft which-
(a) arrives or is expected to arrive in any place in the United Kingdom (whether from another place in the United Kingdom or from outside the United Kingdom), or
(b) leaves or is expected to leave the United Kingdom."
(2) If an examining officer gives the owners or agents of a ship or aircraft to which this paragraph applies a written request to provide specified information, the owners or agents shall comply with the request as soon as is reasonably practicable.
(3) A request to an owner or agent may relate-
(a) to a particular ship or aircraft,
(b) to all ships or aircraft of the owner or agent to which this paragraph applies, or
(c) to specified ships or aircraft.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
And the new paragraph 3 reads....
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(3) A request to an owner or agent may relate-
(a) to a particular ship or aircraft,
(b) to all ships or aircraft of the owner or agent to which this paragraph applies,
(c) to specified ships or aircraft.
(d) to goods
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(4) Information may be specified in a request only if it is of a kind which is prescribed by order of the Secretary of State and which relates-
(a) to passengers,
(b) to crew, or
(c) to vehicles belonging to passengers or crew.
(5) A passenger or member of the crew on a ship or aircraft shall give the captain any information required for the purpose of enabling the owners or agents to comply with a request under this paragraph.
(6) Sub-paragraphs (2) and (5) shall not require the provision of information which is required to be provided under or by virtue of paragraph 27(2) or 27B of Schedule 2 to the Immigration Act 1971.
This seems sensible. A policeman is now allowed to ask the captain of any aircraft whether it is flying within the UK or coming from abroad for details of passengers and crew. I would read this as meaning that they have the power now to be able to ask who was on that aircraft for any flight they do not like the look of.
What would not be sensible would be for them to "require" this for every single flight (or boat trip). Where would you draw the line?
Am I missing something??
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
17. - (1) This paragraph applies to a ship or aircraft which-
(a) arrives or is expected to arrive in Great Britain from the Republic of Ireland, Northern Ireland or any of the Islands, or
(b) arrives or is expected to arrive in Northern Ireland from Great Britain, the Republic of Ireland or any of the Islands.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The above is replaced by...
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"(1) This paragraph applies to a ship or aircraft which-
(a) arrives or is expected to arrive in any place in the United Kingdom (whether from another place in the United Kingdom or from outside the United Kingdom), or
(b) leaves or is expected to leave the United Kingdom."
(2) If an examining officer gives the owners or agents of a ship or aircraft to which this paragraph applies a written request to provide specified information, the owners or agents shall comply with the request as soon as is reasonably practicable.
(3) A request to an owner or agent may relate-
(a) to a particular ship or aircraft,
(b) to all ships or aircraft of the owner or agent to which this paragraph applies, or
(c) to specified ships or aircraft.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
And the new paragraph 3 reads....
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(3) A request to an owner or agent may relate-
(a) to a particular ship or aircraft,
(b) to all ships or aircraft of the owner or agent to which this paragraph applies,
(c) to specified ships or aircraft.
(d) to goods
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(4) Information may be specified in a request only if it is of a kind which is prescribed by order of the Secretary of State and which relates-
(a) to passengers,
(b) to crew, or
(c) to vehicles belonging to passengers or crew.
(5) A passenger or member of the crew on a ship or aircraft shall give the captain any information required for the purpose of enabling the owners or agents to comply with a request under this paragraph.
(6) Sub-paragraphs (2) and (5) shall not require the provision of information which is required to be provided under or by virtue of paragraph 27(2) or 27B of Schedule 2 to the Immigration Act 1971.
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Dear Mr MP,
It seems President Tony reckons he's got so much of our money in his coffers that he can waste it in totally ridiculous ways - refer the attached thread.
I would like you to ask him and the Minister responsible to STOP this nonsense, and to REDUCE my overinflated Council Tax (or whatever it's called this week) by the amount that's being p*$$ed away on it.
Thank you
Keef
(poor aviator)
It seems President Tony reckons he's got so much of our money in his coffers that he can waste it in totally ridiculous ways - refer the attached thread.
I would like you to ask him and the Minister responsible to STOP this nonsense, and to REDUCE my overinflated Council Tax (or whatever it's called this week) by the amount that's being p*$$ed away on it.
Thank you
Keef
(poor aviator)
I thought we'd had this discussion before somewhere.
The ACSA 2001 provides for a written request to be submitted to the operator of an aircraft arriving at an airport. It certainly doesn't appear to permit a requirement of 12 hours notice.
The ACSA 2001 provides for a written request to be submitted to the operator of an aircraft arriving at an airport. It certainly doesn't appear to permit a requirement of 12 hours notice.
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I spoke to SB at EGNT who said that they thought that the Northumbria Force was the first to be introducing this. The person who knows about this is, apparently, DC Gardner.
Their normal requirement for a Northern Ireland, Isle of Man etc etc flight is 12 hours, so I guess they have just used the same rules for domestic ones.
How this counters terrorism I have no idea.
Can't work out whether to or just be really 
Their normal requirement for a Northern Ireland, Isle of Man etc etc flight is 12 hours, so I guess they have just used the same rules for domestic ones.
How this counters terrorism I have no idea.
Can't work out whether to
or just be really
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From anbother discussion forum, it appears that AOPA is up in arms about this development. In no way is this a wind-up. It appears that regional police forces are interpreting the legislation as shown at
http://www.hmso.gov.uk/acts/acts2001/10024--n.htm#118
in their own way, and that potentially all flyers could be subject to this approach being applied.
Of course, once the system/polciy proliferates, they (SB) will find the load so onerous that they'll be forced to change their application of the rules - won't they
..or maybe they'll just ban all GA flying to reduce the load....
<mischievous mode ON>
..'course we could always organise a mass fly-in to Newcastle... swamp the b*gg*rs with 24 hour notices then cancel the next day. Maybe some smart person could organise some software to auto generate requests to SB every 5 mins for a flight.... then cancel it 5 mins before the flight is due to take place.
<mischievous mode OFF>
http://www.hmso.gov.uk/acts/acts2001/10024--n.htm#118
in their own way, and that potentially all flyers could be subject to this approach being applied.
Of course, once the system/polciy proliferates, they (SB) will find the load so onerous that they'll be forced to change their application of the rules - won't they
..or maybe they'll just ban all GA flying to reduce the load....
<mischievous mode ON>
..'course we could always organise a mass fly-in to Newcastle... swamp the b*gg*rs with 24 hour notices then cancel the next day. Maybe some smart person could organise some software to auto generate requests to SB every 5 mins for a flight.... then cancel it 5 mins before the flight is due to take place.
<mischievous mode OFF>
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Outrageous!
I think that Northumbria police would be better spending their man-power by allocating them to search for 2 missing girls rather than p*****g about with perfectly law abiding flights...As seen from events in america...just how much damage do they think a C152 or PA28 can make?!? Or is this an airside only security issue...?!?
If they do do this then they have to make themselves available 24hours a day - and they should NOT delay law abiding 'freedom of movement' - doing so puts them in breach of euro regs.
I think that Northumbria police would be better spending their man-power by allocating them to search for 2 missing girls rather than p*****g about with perfectly law abiding flights...As seen from events in america...just how much damage do they think a C152 or PA28 can make?!? Or is this an airside only security issue...?!?
If they do do this then they have to make themselves available 24hours a day - and they should NOT delay law abiding 'freedom of movement' - doing so puts them in breach of euro regs.
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Well I feel safer already.
I take it someone has just been promoted in Northumbria Special Branch and wants to make a name for themselves....
What next - people walking in front of cars on the A1 with red flags ?
I take it someone has just been promoted in Northumbria Special Branch and wants to make a name for themselves....
What next - people walking in front of cars on the A1 with red flags ?
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Reading their notice implies that they want to examine every aircraft arriving at Newcastle. It says that exemption 'may' be given if we give 12 hours notice.
If I don't give 12 hours notice and make myself available for 'examination' then surely I've complied with their order ?
Whether they come and 'examine' me is surely up to them ?
Of course if I tell them I'm a 'terrorist' I 'may' be exempt from their 'examination.'
Bizarre
If I don't give 12 hours notice and make myself available for 'examination' then surely I've complied with their order ?
Whether they come and 'examine' me is surely up to them ?
Of course if I tell them I'm a 'terrorist' I 'may' be exempt from their 'examination.'
Bizarre
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OK folks: Thursday morning, if I have a spare minute, I'll file a notification of possible arrival to Newcasle Airport Plodshop...
Won't bother to cancel if we don't get there.
Won't bother to cancel if we don't get there.
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As a matter of interest - what is a 'Light Aircraft'?
Is it a C150/PA-28 type of single? Or an Aztec type twin? What about an AN-2 - now thats a single? What about turning up in PBY Catalina - its still twin prop.
Is it a C150/PA-28 type of single? Or an Aztec type twin? What about an AN-2 - now thats a single? What about turning up in PBY Catalina - its still twin prop.
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As a matter of interest - What is a 'Light Aircraft'?
Anything up to 5,000Kg MAW
Anything defined by th ICAO as "light" for wake turbulance
That should give us plenty of scope, as to what aircraft we take on the proposed PPRuNne fly-in to Newcastle. Can we rustle up a good selection, from a flex-wing microlight, up to a DC3?
