Rules or good practice while flying with young children or even babies?
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Rules or good practice while flying with young children or even babies?
As far as I know there are no rules for transporting young children or even toddlers/babies in a GA a/c.
I did not care about it for a long time, but because my first flight with one of my grand children is imminent, I started to think about it. Long time ago I even put two under one belt, when CG of MTOWT allowed it.
Strange, especially if You compare it with stringent rules when transported by car.
There are some child seat systems that can be used with belt-like restraint systems, I don't know if there are any GA planes which feature isofix systems...
How do You guys cope with it?
Richard
I did not care about it for a long time, but because my first flight with one of my grand children is imminent, I started to think about it. Long time ago I even put two under one belt, when CG of MTOWT allowed it.
Strange, especially if You compare it with stringent rules when transported by car.
There are some child seat systems that can be used with belt-like restraint systems, I don't know if there are any GA planes which feature isofix systems...
How do You guys cope with it?
Richard
Double Back,
Try a search of PPRuNe with the keywords Flying and Children. Lots of good stuff.
Try a search of PPRuNe with the keywords Flying and Children. Lots of good stuff.
A child restraint device is required for infants up to 24 months. See NCO.IDE.A.140 in Part-NCO. A supplementary loop belt is typically used for an infant when placed on the lap but these aren't safe:
This is from appendix F to TSBC report A12Q0216 (link). The entire appendix has been reproduced in SKYbrary article Cabin Safety—Child Restraint Systems (link), but see the original report for footnotes.
See also footnote 130 on a comprehensive review on child restraint systems done for EASA, Study on Child Restraint Systems, contract number EASA.2007.C.28, published Nov 2008. That review is available from SKYbrary (pdf link) and EASA (pdf link). See page 27 para 2.2.4 on a C172 accident in which the sole survivor, a 3 year old child, had been seated in a child restraint system. She probably survived because supplementary loop belts aren't allow in Canada where the accident occurred.
Examples of acceptable means of compliance with Canadian requirements are given in TCCA Advisory Circular (AC) No. 605-003 (Child Restraint Systems and Other Seating Devices) (link).
A 2004 Australian study [link] found that, although the infant anthropomorphic dummy attached with a supplementary loop belt was restrained during dynamic testing, it underwent significant forward excursion resulting in severe impact of the infant dummy's head with the forward seat back. In addition, the adult dummy folded over the infant dummy trapping and crushing it in the process.
See also footnote 130 on a comprehensive review on child restraint systems done for EASA, Study on Child Restraint Systems, contract number EASA.2007.C.28, published Nov 2008. That review is available from SKYbrary (pdf link) and EASA (pdf link). See page 27 para 2.2.4 on a C172 accident in which the sole survivor, a 3 year old child, had been seated in a child restraint system. She probably survived because supplementary loop belts aren't allow in Canada where the accident occurred.
Examples of acceptable means of compliance with Canadian requirements are given in TCCA Advisory Circular (AC) No. 605-003 (Child Restraint Systems and Other Seating Devices) (link).
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Are you going to fly for fun, or to get somewhere?
Flying for fun: Don't attempt it with kids younger than about six to eight years old. They don't appreciate the novelty/excitement factor of it and will just fall asleep out of boredom. It's a waste of money.
In any case: If the kids are old enough to sit upright (2+ I guess), use enough cushions and booster seats so that they can see out. If you want to let them sit upfront, remember that a typical GA aircraft cowling is a lot higher than a cars instrument panel, so you need a lot of additional height for them to look over the cowling. I have had to use full booster seats (cushions were not enough) to let kids up to 12 years of age look over the cowling - something they grew out of years ago in their parents car.
Make sure that they're seated with a seatbelt securely and safely fastened. This may help: Homepage
Get children's ear defenders or even child headsets. These are 30% smaller than adult headsets. I like the SkyLite headsets. Skycap aviation in the Netherlands is the distributor. https://www.skycap.nl/ Also think of decent sunglasses.
For babies and toddlers, equalizing ears is not something you can teach or tell them, so a problem. Plan your descents very, very gradually. If possible less than 300 ft/min, possibly with level steps in between. Having something to suck on may help, but don't give chewing gum or sweets that could be swallowed and block their windpipe. A pacifier may work best.
Have sickbags, babywipes and such handy for the results of turbulence.
Keep the initial flights short (<30 minutes) until both you and the kids are more used to the situation.
Have an adult on board to take care of the kids, both in the aircraft and on the ground. You've got enough to do already without their distraction.
If you consider letting the kids have a go at the controls, do it only once the aircraft is in cruise flight and properly trimmed. Use the native language of the kid, not "aviation English". Agree beforehand on how you hand over controls. And for a lot of kids, if you say "My controls" they don't have a positive command as to where to put their hands. If you say "Now put your hands on your knees again" instead, there is a positive command on where the hands need to go. Works much better.
Don't expect they'll be able to read instruments so if you want them to navigate, use outside landmarks where to fly to. And verify that the landmark is visible to them - despite the booster seats and everything they may not be able to see a landmark if it's on your side. For the same reason, letting them keep proper altitude is even harder - they simply won't understand the instrument, let alone what to do with the information.
Flying for fun: Don't attempt it with kids younger than about six to eight years old. They don't appreciate the novelty/excitement factor of it and will just fall asleep out of boredom. It's a waste of money.
In any case: If the kids are old enough to sit upright (2+ I guess), use enough cushions and booster seats so that they can see out. If you want to let them sit upfront, remember that a typical GA aircraft cowling is a lot higher than a cars instrument panel, so you need a lot of additional height for them to look over the cowling. I have had to use full booster seats (cushions were not enough) to let kids up to 12 years of age look over the cowling - something they grew out of years ago in their parents car.
Make sure that they're seated with a seatbelt securely and safely fastened. This may help: Homepage
Get children's ear defenders or even child headsets. These are 30% smaller than adult headsets. I like the SkyLite headsets. Skycap aviation in the Netherlands is the distributor. https://www.skycap.nl/ Also think of decent sunglasses.
For babies and toddlers, equalizing ears is not something you can teach or tell them, so a problem. Plan your descents very, very gradually. If possible less than 300 ft/min, possibly with level steps in between. Having something to suck on may help, but don't give chewing gum or sweets that could be swallowed and block their windpipe. A pacifier may work best.
Have sickbags, babywipes and such handy for the results of turbulence.
Keep the initial flights short (<30 minutes) until both you and the kids are more used to the situation.
Have an adult on board to take care of the kids, both in the aircraft and on the ground. You've got enough to do already without their distraction.
If you consider letting the kids have a go at the controls, do it only once the aircraft is in cruise flight and properly trimmed. Use the native language of the kid, not "aviation English". Agree beforehand on how you hand over controls. And for a lot of kids, if you say "My controls" they don't have a positive command as to where to put their hands. If you say "Now put your hands on your knees again" instead, there is a positive command on where the hands need to go. Works much better.
Don't expect they'll be able to read instruments so if you want them to navigate, use outside landmarks where to fly to. And verify that the landmark is visible to them - despite the booster seats and everything they may not be able to see a landmark if it's on your side. For the same reason, letting them keep proper altitude is even harder - they simply won't understand the instrument, let alone what to do with the information.
Last edited by BackPacker; 26th Feb 2019 at 08:10.
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Nice reactions till so far, tks.
The flight is just a shorter sightseeing flt, just to give them their "baptism". I took my own kids with us on longer flights, long time ago, even as far as Spain in a Seneca-II. Was never a problem, they fell asleep soon after engine start for the late flight and slept through a refueling stop late at night in France. I hope my grandchildren are also "naturals".
But things have changed, I'd like to offer them some more protection during T/O and LDG.
Yes, I got balder....not braver
The flight is just a shorter sightseeing flt, just to give them their "baptism". I took my own kids with us on longer flights, long time ago, even as far as Spain in a Seneca-II. Was never a problem, they fell asleep soon after engine start for the late flight and slept through a refueling stop late at night in France. I hope my grandchildren are also "naturals".
But things have changed, I'd like to offer them some more protection during T/O and LDG.
Yes, I got balder....not braver
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Mine would fall asleep at any age. As teenagers the boys would come with me in the plane if it got them to the pub sooner, but they'd still go to sleep. Oh, except that if your teenage boy brings a girl along for the trip, then he stays awake.
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For recreational flying, I would avoid taking other people's kids younger than six or so. That said I took my own kids younger than that (my youngest at 18 months) simply to get them used to the fact that airplane is a family mode of transport. Liking it was not an element, though they all do, even into their 30's now. An exception to this was many years ago visiting family in Florida. The older brother really wanted to fly, so I took him. Mom then asked if younger brother (3 years) could go for a fly. I turned to him and asked him where his brother had just been. He pointed at the plane, then arced his hand around the airport circuit back to the plane. Yup, he understood what flying was, so I took him, though just for a quick circuit.
I once did agree to taking a mentally challenged young fellow. Unfortunately, I probably should not have with the right side control wheel in. He decided to fly, and I landed the plane fighting him on the controls, as he refused to let go. It worked out, but was messy. I just could not convey that he had to let go. Gently swatting his hands made him more eager to hold on. Now, new passengers don't get a control wheel at all, unless I want them to have it, and I install it for them.
Risk/benefit analysis, do you want to be in the sky with someone else's kid if they loose it up there? What's in it for you, if their first flight becomes their terror, and your difficult flight? At the least, assure that you have control of the length of the flight, and can come right back - no huge traffic pattern airports!
I once did agree to taking a mentally challenged young fellow. Unfortunately, I probably should not have with the right side control wheel in. He decided to fly, and I landed the plane fighting him on the controls, as he refused to let go. It worked out, but was messy. I just could not convey that he had to let go. Gently swatting his hands made him more eager to hold on. Now, new passengers don't get a control wheel at all, unless I want them to have it, and I install it for them.
Risk/benefit analysis, do you want to be in the sky with someone else's kid if they loose it up there? What's in it for you, if their first flight becomes their terror, and your difficult flight? At the least, assure that you have control of the length of the flight, and can come right back - no huge traffic pattern airports!
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I once did agree to taking a mentally challenged young fellow. Unfortunately, I probably should not have with the right side control wheel in. He decided to fly, and I landed the plane fighting him on the controls, as he refused to let go. It worked out, but was messy. I just could not convey that he had to let go. Gently swatting his hands made him more eager to hold on. Now, new passengers don't get a control wheel at all, unless I want them to have it, and I install it for them.
For a situation like this, I have developed a mini-test. While still on the ground I sit them down at the RHS controls (great moment to check if any booster seats are needed btw) and tell them I want their attention now for a short flying lesson. I then tell them how the aircraft is controlled (left, right, up down) and let them feel the control movements. I also work them through a "my controls/your controls" routine. I then check if they understood it, by letting them perform the same routine with no physical input from me - it's all verbal from this point. So again, hands on knees, and then I tell them they can steer, so they can take the controls. I then tell them I want to go left (or I point to the left) and they need to input the proper control, in the same measured proportion I did earlier. Same for right, up and down. And then I tell them I want control again, so the hands need to go on the knees again.
If they can follow the routine and perform it properly right back to me, and without being distracted by "helping" parents (a nuisance) or stuff happening on the apron, then I take them up in the RHS. But if they can't hear, understand and follow my instructions on these six simple tasks (take control, left, right, up, down, release control) I will not take them in the RHS. If we go flying at all, then they go in the back.
A side advantage of this is that if I refuse to take the kid in the RHS, then the parents have witnessed the routine and understand why I made that decision. Prevents a lot of arguments.
Watch out for crosswind landings
It can be a bit distracting in the flare if the little one gets sick. Best to have a spare set of clothes available
No child should ever be taken on an aeroplane (any aeroplane, inc. airliners) until it is able to clear it's ears.
To do so risks inflicting permanent hearing damage, not to mention extreme pain. One often hears babies shrieking in agony during descent, it drives me mad that parents can subject their little ones to such callous torture.
To do so risks inflicting permanent hearing damage, not to mention extreme pain. One often hears babies shrieking in agony during descent, it drives me mad that parents can subject their little ones to such callous torture.
