Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Non-Airline Forums > Private Flying
Reload this Page >

Eurocontrol IFR clearance FO costs?

Private Flying LAA/BMAA/BGA/BPA The sheer pleasure of flight.

Eurocontrol IFR clearance FO costs?

Reply

Old 24th Nov 2018, 23:20
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Glens o' Angus by way of LA
Age: 55
Posts: 1,942
Eurocontrol IFR clearance FO costs?

Always wondered what are the ballpark charges, and how do you figure the cost of flying in the airways. Hypothetically, say you had a real fast pressurised single and filed from Aberdeen to Malaga what would that cost in control fees?
piperboy84 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 25th Nov 2018, 07:36
  #2 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: EBZH
Posts: 2,327
Didn't I hear that below 2 tonnes you pay nothing? There was a reason certain planes are derated to 1999 kg and I thought it was this.
Jan Olieslagers is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 25th Nov 2018, 08:43
  #3 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Livin de island life
Posts: 456
Jan is correct - below 2Mt it's free. That's why some Senecas are artificially restricted by certificate.
Over that it is quite complicated because the calculation of charge depends on the country (FIR) being flown through, the distance between reporting points in that FIR and the square root of the weight (MTOW) ofthe aircraft. Hence the charges are biased towards the lower end of the weight scale and the big boys pay proportionally less. Eurocontrol used to have a software tool that you could download and work out the charges for any particular route; not sure if it is still there.
update - look for RSO distance tool. It's almost prehistoric but will tell you what you want to know (if you can make it work).
flyingfemme is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 25th Nov 2018, 13:03
  #4 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Amsterdam
Posts: 4,583
Originally Posted by flyingfemme View Post
Hence the charges are biased towards the lower end of the weight scale and the big boys pay proportionally less.
I guess that depends on your point of view. ATC has the same amount of work, regardless of whether it's a 2000 kg SEP or an A380. In fact, arguably ATC needs to spend proportionally more time with GA than with A380s, as GA generally flies slower and thus spends more time in a certain bit of airspace. However, the ATC charges are based on (the square root of) the MTOW, so the big boys pay significantly more for the same service.
BackPacker is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 25th Nov 2018, 19:11
  #5 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Yorkshire
Posts: 129
Err ....... as flyingfemme points out if the charges are based on the square root of the MTOW then the big boys pay proportionally less.
snchater is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 25th Nov 2018, 20:25
  #6 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: United Kingdom
Age: 35
Posts: 254
Hopefully, this gives you a good idea:

glider12000 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 25th Nov 2018, 20:38
  #7 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Moray,Scotland,U.K.
Posts: 1,260
"
... as flyingfemme points out if the charges are based on the square root of the MTOW then the big boys pay proportionally less."
less per aircraft, but more per hour?
Maoraigh1 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 26th Nov 2018, 07:05
  #8 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Down South
Posts: 272
Originally Posted by BackPacker View Post
I guess that depends on your point of view. ATC has the same amount of work, regardless of whether it's a 2000 kg SEP or an A380. In fact, arguably ATC needs to spend proportionally more time with GA than with A380s, as GA generally flies slower and thus spends more time in a certain bit of airspace. However, the ATC charges are based on (the square root of) the MTOW, so the big boys pay significantly more for the same service.
I don't know anything about the flying side of things, but as an ATCO low and slow traffic around the London TMA is considerably more difficult to deal with as everything else is going a lot quicker and it's always in the way. We don't mind, as that's what we're here for, but our lives are far easier when it's a load of jets that are all doing very similar speeds. Our traffic prediction devices, for London area control, give each flight a complexity weighting as it goes through a sector and low and slows attract a higher complexity rating than a jet doing the same flight

Again like I said, we don't mind - I'm not having a go at anyone who wants to use the airways as they're there to be used - I was just saying in a slightly convoluted way that they're not the same amount of work.
The Many Tentacles is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 26th Nov 2018, 07:07
  #9 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Down South
Posts: 272
Originally Posted by Maoraigh1 View Post
"
... as flyingfemme points out if the charges are based on the square root of the MTOW then the big boys pay proportionally less."
less per aircraft, but more per hour?
It's done on distance, not time. The distance is worked out by using the great circle route from departure to FIR exit point then FIR entry point to destination/FIR exit point and so on So technically, the less time you spend in the airspace the more you're paying per hour
The Many Tentacles is offline  
Reply With Quote

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service