Engine Failure
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: N.E. Derbyshire, UK
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QDM -
Totally agree - hence my comment that the (second) decision to turn back to the airfield behind me was probably the best flying decision I'll make.
In hindsight - would I have done differently? Hell yes, if I'd thought the cylinder would fall off I'd have never taken off again after taxying off to the ramp. The initial rough-running was distinctly like plug-fouling, and I suspected that the problem would quickly clear. After a number of touch-and-go's I'd had spark plug fouling before a couple of times (I guess this is a possible symptom of the 'power-on', 'power-off' nature of circuits). This occasion - at first anyway - seemed pretty much the same, so my first thought was "that's enough touch and go's - I'll get the engine properly warmed and clear the plugs, if that is what's causing it". So you could say that in hindsight this was the wrong decision, yes, because plug-fouling it most certainly wasn't.
When it became very apparent that the problem was more serious, I had no hesitation in heading for the nearest mile of tarmac - i.e. immediately behind me.
It taught me a lesson - be aware of the 'sound and feel' of the engine and be wary of any changes, whether sudden or otherwise. The other lesson might be to strap skis, floats, wheels and a parachute to the plane, to give a fighting chance in the event of engine failure, but this would make for an interesting weight and balance calculation...
Totally agree - hence my comment that the (second) decision to turn back to the airfield behind me was probably the best flying decision I'll make.
In hindsight - would I have done differently? Hell yes, if I'd thought the cylinder would fall off I'd have never taken off again after taxying off to the ramp. The initial rough-running was distinctly like plug-fouling, and I suspected that the problem would quickly clear. After a number of touch-and-go's I'd had spark plug fouling before a couple of times (I guess this is a possible symptom of the 'power-on', 'power-off' nature of circuits). This occasion - at first anyway - seemed pretty much the same, so my first thought was "that's enough touch and go's - I'll get the engine properly warmed and clear the plugs, if that is what's causing it". So you could say that in hindsight this was the wrong decision, yes, because plug-fouling it most certainly wasn't.
When it became very apparent that the problem was more serious, I had no hesitation in heading for the nearest mile of tarmac - i.e. immediately behind me.
It taught me a lesson - be aware of the 'sound and feel' of the engine and be wary of any changes, whether sudden or otherwise. The other lesson might be to strap skis, floats, wheels and a parachute to the plane, to give a fighting chance in the event of engine failure, but this would make for an interesting weight and balance calculation...
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Englishal
I have no intention of giving up flying and I still love piston engines , especially the big round ones. The moral of my post was 3/4 of my engine problems had clear warning beforehand.
If I had not heeded the initial unexplained oil pressure drop in the C 150 and immediately headed for home I would have had to ditch as my homefield has water on two sides. The PA 39 was obviously a tradically abused piece of junk owned by a complete idiot. I should never have got in the aircraft in the first place. The PA31 was owned and operated by a good company and maintained by an experienced and dedicated engineer. If the other pilots had logged the oil added I am sure he would have realised something was wrong and found the dying turbo before it suffered a catastrophic failure. As for the R1820 cyl failure , well stuff happens , which is why we have regular recurrent training
I have no intention of giving up flying and I still love piston engines , especially the big round ones. The moral of my post was 3/4 of my engine problems had clear warning beforehand.
If I had not heeded the initial unexplained oil pressure drop in the C 150 and immediately headed for home I would have had to ditch as my homefield has water on two sides. The PA 39 was obviously a tradically abused piece of junk owned by a complete idiot. I should never have got in the aircraft in the first place. The PA31 was owned and operated by a good company and maintained by an experienced and dedicated engineer. If the other pilots had logged the oil added I am sure he would have realised something was wrong and found the dying turbo before it suffered a catastrophic failure. As for the R1820 cyl failure , well stuff happens , which is why we have regular recurrent training
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c 206
While flying a c 206 with skydivers engine was coughing after the jump at near 14000 feet probably over 17000 feet density with no turbo,the answer seemed to be in the book-flying with less than quarter tank for more than one minute uncoordinated.After the engine went quite on me and others again it seemed that more fuel and shorter jump runs.UNKNOWN IF DENSITY CAN CAUSE IT.Another time with a full load of jumpers,near the top of the climb,lots of fuel,engine quit,told them to jump,they freaked out and refused,fuel pump on switch tanks a bit time and engine alive,some say that once a bee in the fuel line caused a similar problem,it seems that flying jumpers is good way to lose your ticket as they just want to get hi,not mantain the plane,low fuel etc.,that was one dodgy place,dont know how others are but....
Join Date: Jul 2001
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Wunper -
The forced landing was at Winter Haven - not a million miles from Lake Wales. Both of them are nice airfields, although Winter Haven is usually a little busier.
During PPL training my instructor and I were taxying back to the active at Lake Wales having just practiced a short field full stop landing, when there was a lot of babble on the Unicom about 'jumpers over Lake Wales'.
Wondering whether our plane was about to have a job-lot of cardigans land in the prop, we were then descended upon by about ten parachutists, one of them even daring to float right across the front of us whilst the prop was turning (we stopped the moment we saw them so they could maneuver around us). The instructor was of the opinion that if the 'chutist wanted to play chicken with a whirly mincer, that's up to him. I know they go in for adrenalin rush by taking risks, but there's a limit....
Anyway, I digress, have you been to Lake Wales/Winter Haven?
Al.
The forced landing was at Winter Haven - not a million miles from Lake Wales. Both of them are nice airfields, although Winter Haven is usually a little busier.
During PPL training my instructor and I were taxying back to the active at Lake Wales having just practiced a short field full stop landing, when there was a lot of babble on the Unicom about 'jumpers over Lake Wales'.
Wondering whether our plane was about to have a job-lot of cardigans land in the prop, we were then descended upon by about ten parachutists, one of them even daring to float right across the front of us whilst the prop was turning (we stopped the moment we saw them so they could maneuver around us). The instructor was of the opinion that if the 'chutist wanted to play chicken with a whirly mincer, that's up to him. I know they go in for adrenalin rush by taking risks, but there's a limit....
Anyway, I digress, have you been to Lake Wales/Winter Haven?
Al.
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Once had vapour lock in a PA31 on take off on a very hot day - unusual for a turbocharged injected engine to do that!
Never got above about 20mph, but with one engine delivering between about 40% and full power in rapid fulctuation that was entertaining enough.
No prior warning at all and this following a run up just before entering the runway as my instructor said "we've held for a while, lets be cautious!"
Never got above about 20mph, but with one engine delivering between about 40% and full power in rapid fulctuation that was entertaining enough.
No prior warning at all and this following a run up just before entering the runway as my instructor said "we've held for a while, lets be cautious!"
Join Date: Aug 2002
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Mattpilot,
you may have full tanks and all seletors open and still have the engine starve... especially when they manage to give you contaminated fuel.
I had an engine failure 15 minutes after starting up and one minute after taking off, at 300ft. Engine just went silent, was lucky, lots of fields, landed without a scratch.
Aircraft was a VLA with rotax engine, I was using unlead petrol: investigation revealed 11 litres of water in 40 litres of fuel.
you may have full tanks and all seletors open and still have the engine starve... especially when they manage to give you contaminated fuel.
I had an engine failure 15 minutes after starting up and one minute after taking off, at 300ft. Engine just went silent, was lucky, lots of fields, landed without a scratch.
Aircraft was a VLA with rotax engine, I was using unlead petrol: investigation revealed 11 litres of water in 40 litres of fuel.
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@african eagle
I realize it can happen, but the point of this topic, or my intent of it, was to hear about engine failure's that where not pilot errors.
"Aircraft was a VLA with rotax engine, I was using unlead petrol: investigation revealed 11 litres of water in 40 litres of fuel."
I dont know who the investigation in your accident blamed, but here's my take on it. I believe it was Pilot error. Why? Well if you have 1/4 water in your tank and you miss it, then someone didn't do the preflight. I DO REALIZE, that you have to wait roughly 30 minutes for all the water to settle and be drainable after refueling, but lets see what the POH says. POH's say that after every fueling, a fuel sample must be drained. I guess that means to wait 30 min on the ground in oder to stay 100% legal. So if you dont follow POH procedures, the pilot committed an error.
Btw, if you have 1/4 water mixed into the fuel, then usually you can already see water deposits after a few minutes. And if all the water was already settled at the bottom, and you drained it and nothing but water came out, then a color/smell check should of been done.
I realize it can happen, but the point of this topic, or my intent of it, was to hear about engine failure's that where not pilot errors.
"Aircraft was a VLA with rotax engine, I was using unlead petrol: investigation revealed 11 litres of water in 40 litres of fuel."
I dont know who the investigation in your accident blamed, but here's my take on it. I believe it was Pilot error. Why? Well if you have 1/4 water in your tank and you miss it, then someone didn't do the preflight. I DO REALIZE, that you have to wait roughly 30 minutes for all the water to settle and be drainable after refueling, but lets see what the POH says. POH's say that after every fueling, a fuel sample must be drained. I guess that means to wait 30 min on the ground in oder to stay 100% legal. So if you dont follow POH procedures, the pilot committed an error.
Btw, if you have 1/4 water mixed into the fuel, then usually you can already see water deposits after a few minutes. And if all the water was already settled at the bottom, and you drained it and nothing but water came out, then a color/smell check should of been done.
