Night Flying, Single engine, Daft as a Brush?
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Joined: Aug 2000
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From: London
Night Flying, Single engine, Daft as a Brush?
Rather than pervert the other topic on night flying...
What do people think about night flying if (and we all hope if not when) the fan stops. I've only done it a couple of times, once as P/UT and once as keen muggins with another PPL.
Beautiful for sure, and very Star Wars for the approach and landing, but, err... ? "And, in the event of engine failure, choose from a wide selection of rather black shapes, set best glide, then bulk text your loved ones..."
Or am I just being a big blouse?
What do people think about night flying if (and we all hope if not when) the fan stops. I've only done it a couple of times, once as P/UT and once as keen muggins with another PPL.
Beautiful for sure, and very Star Wars for the approach and landing, but, err... ? "And, in the event of engine failure, choose from a wide selection of rather black shapes, set best glide, then bulk text your loved ones..."
Or am I just being a big blouse?
Last edited by paulo; 28th July 2002 at 00:40.
Joined: Dec 2001
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
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From: GA, USA
Paulo don't expect to be just as comfortable at night as during the day after a couple of hours.
Night is too different for that.Difference of night and day really LOL
It's extending your horizons with an increase in risk that's for sure.Personally I would not go for the 'dark spot' theory.
In case of an emergency I would always go to a lighted area.First of all you can see what you're doing and where you're going and help is bound to be around somewhere.
Just keep flying at night with friends till you start feeling a little more comfortable.
A night rating is a 'save your ass' rating anyway.
If you get delayed somewhere you know you can fly the last half hour in the dark to your home-field.
I have 180hrs night and still feel a little uncomfy now and then.May never go away...maybe because I've had partial engine failure at night...
Night is too different for that.Difference of night and day really LOL
It's extending your horizons with an increase in risk that's for sure.Personally I would not go for the 'dark spot' theory.
In case of an emergency I would always go to a lighted area.First of all you can see what you're doing and where you're going and help is bound to be around somewhere.
Just keep flying at night with friends till you start feeling a little more comfortable.
A night rating is a 'save your ass' rating anyway.
If you get delayed somewhere you know you can fly the last half hour in the dark to your home-field.
I have 180hrs night and still feel a little uncomfy now and then.May never go away...maybe because I've had partial engine failure at night...
Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 1,274
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From: Glen Prosen, Scotland
Doesn't bother me at all, nor does flying over water in a single (although the Atlantic might cause me to pucker a bit). While it may be a bit naive, I always assume the engine will keep going. Oh, and I wear a parachute .
.
Joined: May 2001
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From: 75N 16E
I thought about it once, when flying over the San Bernadino mountains at night....then I decided that thinking about it doesn't help......so now it doesn't bother me. Although I feel 'safer' in a twin, it depends on the twin, some are more dangerous than a single in my opinion !
Cheers
EA
Cheers
EA
Joined: Jan 1999
Posts: 6,209
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From: north of barlu
lies dam lies and statistics !
Some years ago one of the american magazines carried out some reserch and found that an engine failure at night was no more likely to kill you than one by day.
I am left to speculate that this reflects the lack of engine failure practice that the average PPl hoder puts in ?.
I am left to speculate that this reflects the lack of engine failure practice that the average PPl hoder puts in ?.
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 407
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From: Norfolk
For my money it is all about awereness of the clues leading up to engine failure. You don't always get advance warning but often there are tell tale signs. At night I pay far more attention to these and also ensure that I have checked everything throughly. There is an increased risk but flying over a built up area carries an increased risk as does flying over mountains, and flying in IMC.....
Hell flying at all is probably the first mistake!.
When I took my heli course I asked about the need for a flare as night equipment and was re-assured that this was to let off at the last moment so that you could see the cause of your death just before it happened. Felt much better after that.
Fly higher, enhance situational awareness, and do the checks more frequently is the best advice I can offer.
Hell flying at all is probably the first mistake!.
When I took my heli course I asked about the need for a flare as night equipment and was re-assured that this was to let off at the last moment so that you could see the cause of your death just before it happened. Felt much better after that.
Fly higher, enhance situational awareness, and do the checks more frequently is the best advice I can offer.
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 121
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From: Bournemouth, Blighty
I enjoy night flying, it's much more serene, very rarely significant wind or turbulence, can see for miles and there's little traffic about. Although yes, there is always that hightened sense of risk in a single. Personally I'd be inclined to try a river or the shoreline, where available, if the engine went at night. The big black bits over land tend to contain pylons, walls, trees, cows, and other such things liable to be more solid than your aircraft.
Whatever the statistics, I'd feel a lot happier about unexpectedly becoming a glider pilot in the daylight!
Whatever the statistics, I'd feel a lot happier about unexpectedly becoming a glider pilot in the daylight!
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 510
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From: England
A & C, Do you have a reference to the magazine article? I have heard the same figures quoted but have been unable to find the source.
If you don't fly at night, you are loosing an awful lot of utility from your aircraft, particularly in the UK winter. There was talk some years ago of the PFA moving towards allowing night and IMC flight in suitably equiped PFA aircraft, but they don't appear to have made any progress. I assume the recent efforts have quite rightly been put into the NPPL. Even so, I'm surprised that we are still banned from even flying at night in all PFA aircraft. I am not aware of any statistics showing PFA aircraft to have more failures than C of A aircraft. Does anyone else know of any such data?
If you don't fly at night, you are loosing an awful lot of utility from your aircraft, particularly in the UK winter. There was talk some years ago of the PFA moving towards allowing night and IMC flight in suitably equiped PFA aircraft, but they don't appear to have made any progress. I assume the recent efforts have quite rightly been put into the NPPL. Even so, I'm surprised that we are still banned from even flying at night in all PFA aircraft. I am not aware of any statistics showing PFA aircraft to have more failures than C of A aircraft. Does anyone else know of any such data?
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 70
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From: UK
Never had a fan stop at night but did once have full electrical failure (batt C/b would not reset) in the cicuit.
Wouldn't you just know that it was the ONE time I've never taken a spare torch or batteries, so my only source of light gave up as I stopped the landing role after one go around.
Scared me enough to have two torches, spare battery and spare radio every time I fly at night or on a longish cross-country.
The moral of the story is be prepared, take all the kit you need and is suggested that you take (and then some) and get plenty of instructor time on emergencies at night, including PFL's.
Its the best way to increase the odds of the big black patch not being a forest and that you walk away.
Wouldn't you just know that it was the ONE time I've never taken a spare torch or batteries, so my only source of light gave up as I stopped the landing role after one go around.
Scared me enough to have two torches, spare battery and spare radio every time I fly at night or on a longish cross-country.
The moral of the story is be prepared, take all the kit you need and is suggested that you take (and then some) and get plenty of instructor time on emergencies at night, including PFL's.
Its the best way to increase the odds of the big black patch not being a forest and that you walk away.
