Live organ transport
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: India
Age: 59
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Live organ transport
What are the rules for transporting live organs on a non-commercial flight by pilots holding a private pilot license? Our club in India has three aircraft, a C172S, a DA 40 and a DA 42. We have been corresponding with the DGCA for several months now to allow us to transport organs free of charge. We have offered to bear all the expenses, including fuel, landing charges, navigation, etc. we would like to know the regulations in other countries for comparison.
Don't know if it's the same in India, but if you're doing it privately in the UK based on no revenue earning of any sort, the only rules would be laid down by the senders and receivers of the organs who would need to ensure that the organs get to the recipient safely and in the shortest time as some organs have a time limit on their use.
Factors to take into consideration would be things like is the destination going to be open when you arrive and is it an airport which accepts your type of aircraft; does the pilot have the necessary qualification to make an instrument approach if necessary.
A company at Fairoaks does this type of operation commercially and uses a Kingair, often operating between midnight and 6am, but there are other companies in the UK which use single engined aircraft.
Factors to take into consideration would be things like is the destination going to be open when you arrive and is it an airport which accepts your type of aircraft; does the pilot have the necessary qualification to make an instrument approach if necessary.
A company at Fairoaks does this type of operation commercially and uses a Kingair, often operating between midnight and 6am, but there are other companies in the UK which use single engined aircraft.
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Iraq and other places
Posts: 1,111
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by chevvron
Factors to take into consideration would be things like is the destination going to be open when you arrive...
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: The World
Posts: 1,271
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I assume by 'living organs' you mean human spare parts? To make it short, the way you desribe - private aircraft and PPL pilots - will be NoGo in most countries. For legal permit to plant used human organs in other bodies you have to fulfil quite a lot of bureaucratic checks, i.e. document cool chain, have a license allowing for transporting potential dangerous goods etceteras. As a private pilot running a private aircraft you would have almost no chance to bring all necessary papers, so a doctor can legally implant the organ in most parts of the world.
I remember reading a story lately of someone trying to transport living sheep in Europe - a MontyPythonian story of 2018. Try to find that and imagine what this makes of your idea of human parts.
I remember reading a story lately of someone trying to transport living sheep in Europe - a MontyPythonian story of 2018. Try to find that and imagine what this makes of your idea of human parts.
Not sure which countries you are referring to ChickenHouse, but not true in the Western World.
A lot of human tissue is transported on commercial flights with a volunteer courier. The Charity or organisation overseeing it provides a simple letter but no real permits or licenses.
Kidneys have a shorter sell by date and are usually coordinated via National Transplantation Systems that liase with each other to ensure the best recipient tissue typing. They then use a number of turboprops and jets which may be little more than a one aircraft operation, although not infrequently they charter in the aircraft. They dont use private pilots simply because they need reliability
Hearts and lungs need to be moved quickly and a surgical team normally goes from the recipient hospital to harvest the organs. They charter an aircraft for longer distances, and use road vehicles for shorter distances. The aircraft are again from a private organisation that is known to be able to deliver and big enough to move a team of perhaps four.
So if a small aircraft is needed it will be for an organ where the overall health cost of the transplant procedure means the aircraft cost is relatively insignificant. Although there is nothing stopping the use of some PPL in a 152, I cant really see the advantage. Certainly a surgical team wont agree to that sort of arrangement!
A lot of human tissue is transported on commercial flights with a volunteer courier. The Charity or organisation overseeing it provides a simple letter but no real permits or licenses.
Kidneys have a shorter sell by date and are usually coordinated via National Transplantation Systems that liase with each other to ensure the best recipient tissue typing. They then use a number of turboprops and jets which may be little more than a one aircraft operation, although not infrequently they charter in the aircraft. They dont use private pilots simply because they need reliability
Hearts and lungs need to be moved quickly and a surgical team normally goes from the recipient hospital to harvest the organs. They charter an aircraft for longer distances, and use road vehicles for shorter distances. The aircraft are again from a private organisation that is known to be able to deliver and big enough to move a team of perhaps four.
So if a small aircraft is needed it will be for an organ where the overall health cost of the transplant procedure means the aircraft cost is relatively insignificant. Although there is nothing stopping the use of some PPL in a 152, I cant really see the advantage. Certainly a surgical team wont agree to that sort of arrangement!
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Uk
Posts: 213
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I thought in the UK this is regarded as a Commercial operation.
The pressures on the pilot can be quite high not only due to medical time constraints but also weather, night, controlled airspace, night operating hours etc.,
I vaguely recall private flights were once allowed but have long since been stopped.
The pressures on the pilot can be quite high not only due to medical time constraints but also weather, night, controlled airspace, night operating hours etc.,
I vaguely recall private flights were once allowed but have long since been stopped.
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: uk
Posts: 1,018
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I remember landing at Brum at three in the morning (i was clocking up night hours), it was minus ten degrees (later report said it dropped to -13) and the aircraft that pulled up alongside was an Aztec. Pilot said he had a human heart aboard destined for Edinburgh.
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: In front of a computer
Posts: 2,189
Likes: 0
Received 15 Likes
on
3 Posts
This report from 1979 came to mind - it was an organ transport flight....
https://assets.publishing.service.go...980_G-BFKO.pdf
https://assets.publishing.service.go...980_G-BFKO.pdf
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Home
Posts: 1,002
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Did a couple of transplant flights in a King Air out of Chevvrons base some years ago. Single crew, and usually late night early morning due Op Theatre availability at the destination hospital. Surprised at the lack of technology involved, a plastic bag in a Cool Box!
Remember the clearance out of Glasgow, “climb FL270 direct BOV” Pre GPS so eyeballed it!
Usually ended up at LHR as no lights then at home base.
Happy days, very junior LH copilot, permanent Reserve Lines, paid by the Airline, lots of time off to fly real aeroplanes!
Very satisfying missions.
Remember the clearance out of Glasgow, “climb FL270 direct BOV” Pre GPS so eyeballed it!
Usually ended up at LHR as no lights then at home base.
Happy days, very junior LH copilot, permanent Reserve Lines, paid by the Airline, lots of time off to fly real aeroplanes!
Very satisfying missions.
Last edited by cessnapete; 3rd Aug 2018 at 07:14.
a plastic bag in a Cool Box
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: The Wild West (UK)
Age: 44
Posts: 1,151
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It's a really interesting question. Obviously legal aspects will vary by location. In the UK we have volunteer motorcyclists who transport blood products - not sure if they're allowed to break the speed limit as a reward and I don't know any of the details about who owns the bikes and associated equipment - I suspect they're not privately owned as they have specific markings.
My question would be about the practicalities rather than the legalities. I have not got the reference any more, but I have seen a career fatality rate 1/8 for US medical pilots (I think this included both helimed - which didn't surprise me - and medical transfer - which did). It can be hard enough to say 'no' to flying in bad weather as a commercial pilot to start off with. When doing so is likely to lead to the death of a patient it becomes very hard indeed and I have read a number of accident reports where pilots weighed a fairly high risk of killing themselves against the near certainty of killing a patient, and lost.
Next comes the 'time to spare, go by air' issue that flying is often not particularly quick. If you have a slick system for getting the pilot and aircraft ready whilst the donor organ is being removed, and also for transporting the organ from the destination airport to the destination hospital, I can see that this might not be insurmountable. However in the UK one is often limited by the weather. Perhaps this is less of an issue in your region of India, but I suspect that one might get a much better dispatch rate by using professional pilots and more capable aircraft. The problem being that such services become more dangerous and less economically viable if the 'easy' trips are taken from them by amateurs. I realise that India is a developing nation, but from what I've heard from my colleagues medical wages and costs are going up to the extent that doctors are returning to India from the UK because they can make more money there. In such a climate, I feel it should be expected that pilots and medical transfer services should be paid a fair sum for their efforts.
Fast forward 15 years and I think organ transfers will be accomplished by unmanned drones.
You've probably gathered that I don't immediately like the idea, but obviously you know the logistics of what you're proposing better than I do. Still, food for thought.
My question would be about the practicalities rather than the legalities. I have not got the reference any more, but I have seen a career fatality rate 1/8 for US medical pilots (I think this included both helimed - which didn't surprise me - and medical transfer - which did). It can be hard enough to say 'no' to flying in bad weather as a commercial pilot to start off with. When doing so is likely to lead to the death of a patient it becomes very hard indeed and I have read a number of accident reports where pilots weighed a fairly high risk of killing themselves against the near certainty of killing a patient, and lost.
Next comes the 'time to spare, go by air' issue that flying is often not particularly quick. If you have a slick system for getting the pilot and aircraft ready whilst the donor organ is being removed, and also for transporting the organ from the destination airport to the destination hospital, I can see that this might not be insurmountable. However in the UK one is often limited by the weather. Perhaps this is less of an issue in your region of India, but I suspect that one might get a much better dispatch rate by using professional pilots and more capable aircraft. The problem being that such services become more dangerous and less economically viable if the 'easy' trips are taken from them by amateurs. I realise that India is a developing nation, but from what I've heard from my colleagues medical wages and costs are going up to the extent that doctors are returning to India from the UK because they can make more money there. In such a climate, I feel it should be expected that pilots and medical transfer services should be paid a fair sum for their efforts.
Fast forward 15 years and I think organ transfers will be accomplished by unmanned drones.
You've probably gathered that I don't immediately like the idea, but obviously you know the logistics of what you're proposing better than I do. Still, food for thought.
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: 5Y
Posts: 578
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by abgd
Fast forward 15 years and I think organ transfers will be accomplished by unmanned drones.
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Nairobi
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by abgd
Fast forward 15 years and I think organ transfers will be accomplished by unmanned drones.
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Ready to Depart
Age: 44
Posts: 291
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
In the UK, the NHS requires muti-engine aircraft (fixed or rotary) for organ transfers. Being a live organ, the requirements are effectively the same as if you are carrying human passengers rather than cargo...!
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: The Wild West (UK)
Age: 44
Posts: 1,151
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Blood is already being routinely delivered by drone in several African countries
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: The World
Posts: 1,271
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by double_barrel
Blood is already being routinely delivered by drone in several African countries. These are fixed-wing drones with a range of nearly 200Km and a payload of 5Kg. So I a sure you are right.
Originally Posted by Dusty_B
In the UK, the NHS requires muti-engine aircraft (fixed or rotary) for organ transfers. Being a live organ, the requirements are effectively the same as if you are carrying human passengers rather than cargo...!
AFAIK, If it would be the same as carrying passengers, it can be done by Single Engine Turbine since SERA & EASA changed that. The requirement for multi-engine is outdated for quite a while to my records.
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: 5Y
Posts: 578
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by abgd
The big difference here is that blood is replaceable - apart from a few rare blood groups you just take another armful. Organs are much scarcer. Eventually I'm sure drones will become reliable enough for the purpose though.
Originally Posted by ChickenHouse
Fully automated drones with impact injection? Fancy idea!
