Seaplanes
Thread Starter
That's interesting. Biscarrosse specifically said they would let me fly solo once I had the rating. Maybe because it's actually a flying club and not a for profit school. I'm really looking forward to this! Thank you all for your input, I had no idea there were so many seaplane pilots here.
Moderator
I imagine that you can fly solo at Biscarrosse because the operator there very closely controls the flying. In particular, because there are only two possible lakes to land in. They can give you a good briefing about landing in each lake as appropriate, and they can be confident about the conditions. Once they decide that conditions are suitable for solo flying, that would apply to all the places you could land.
I flew an amphibian across Europe with a friend a few years ago, and there are surprisingly few places where water landings are permitted. I think the Germany has four places. We headed to Lake Como in Italy, but they have very restrictive hours of operation. Had we landed, we would have had to stay for a day or two until the float base opened again. I did land in the harbour at Split, Croatia, though that required a lot of permission requesting!
The best opportunity for diverse float flying will be found in the Vancouver/Victoria area of British Coumbia or in Ontario. Anchorage is another good place to enjoy float flying.
Things are very different in other parts of the world, where you can take off one lake, and land in any of a hundred lakes within an hour or so flying. The lakes can vary greatly in size, condition, and hazards. I can take off from my home runway, and land in either of sic different lakes within a five minute flight. They are all different, and it could be safe to land in one or two, and totally unsafe to land in the others. One another day, I could safely land in any of them. Or, you fly in to your favourite lake in the morning, and by the afternoon, it's not safe to takeoff. More than once, I've been relaxing on shore, and decided to leave with no delay because of worsening conditions.
The local float flying school will let you fly solo in their lake, but no other lake, unless you've been checked out by their instructor in that lake. The practical reality is that although you might be checked out in another lake (maybe where your cottage is), you cannot practically rent the plane and "fly to your cottage for the weekend", because the school has to have the plane in service the whole weekend. So renting a floatplane to go somewhere is wasteful unless you can land there with purpose. You can use a landplane for a touring trip. If you're paying the extra to take the floats with you, you may as well make the most of it, and fly circuits!
I flew an amphibian across Europe with a friend a few years ago, and there are surprisingly few places where water landings are permitted. I think the Germany has four places. We headed to Lake Como in Italy, but they have very restrictive hours of operation. Had we landed, we would have had to stay for a day or two until the float base opened again. I did land in the harbour at Split, Croatia, though that required a lot of permission requesting!
The best opportunity for diverse float flying will be found in the Vancouver/Victoria area of British Coumbia or in Ontario. Anchorage is another good place to enjoy float flying.
Things are very different in other parts of the world, where you can take off one lake, and land in any of a hundred lakes within an hour or so flying. The lakes can vary greatly in size, condition, and hazards. I can take off from my home runway, and land in either of sic different lakes within a five minute flight. They are all different, and it could be safe to land in one or two, and totally unsafe to land in the others. One another day, I could safely land in any of them. Or, you fly in to your favourite lake in the morning, and by the afternoon, it's not safe to takeoff. More than once, I've been relaxing on shore, and decided to leave with no delay because of worsening conditions.
The local float flying school will let you fly solo in their lake, but no other lake, unless you've been checked out by their instructor in that lake. The practical reality is that although you might be checked out in another lake (maybe where your cottage is), you cannot practically rent the plane and "fly to your cottage for the weekend", because the school has to have the plane in service the whole weekend. So renting a floatplane to go somewhere is wasteful unless you can land there with purpose. You can use a landplane for a touring trip. If you're paying the extra to take the floats with you, you may as well make the most of it, and fly circuits!
Moderator
Oh, right, you're going to fly an amphib... That adds two more factors: a useful load of bugger all, so it may not even be two people and full tanks. But, more critical, commit these words to heart: "Wheels are down for landing on land" or "Wheels are up for landing on water". Somewhere between downwind and base, you are responsible for looking at whatever landing gear position indicators are there, and after considering the landing gear position you observe, say the appropriate phrase, then look out the windshield, and confirm that the intended landing surface is what you just said it should be.
When I train amphib pilots, I'll let them forget to say the correct phrase once, and do it for them. After that, if they fail to say the phrase (accompanied by a meaningful check), I will call a panicked go around on short final - to purposefully scare them (and I actually make them go around, regardless of gear position) - just so they get it. Because no matter how badly I scare them, it will not be as bad as crashing in the water (ask me how I know!).
I extend this discipline to every retractable I fly, which includes wheelski aircraft. It's just good for pilots to do. When you turn up for training, and demonstrate to your instructor that this is normal conduct for you, the instructor will gain confidence in you immediately. No matter what other system or checklist there may be with the aircraft, the use of the phrase is your personal discipline which you use for you, to prevent you finding yourself floating (or drowning) next to a sinking plane.
That reminds me....I'll post my manifesto about lifejacket use from last summer next....
When I train amphib pilots, I'll let them forget to say the correct phrase once, and do it for them. After that, if they fail to say the phrase (accompanied by a meaningful check), I will call a panicked go around on short final - to purposefully scare them (and I actually make them go around, regardless of gear position) - just so they get it. Because no matter how badly I scare them, it will not be as bad as crashing in the water (ask me how I know!).
I extend this discipline to every retractable I fly, which includes wheelski aircraft. It's just good for pilots to do. When you turn up for training, and demonstrate to your instructor that this is normal conduct for you, the instructor will gain confidence in you immediately. No matter what other system or checklist there may be with the aircraft, the use of the phrase is your personal discipline which you use for you, to prevent you finding yourself floating (or drowning) next to a sinking plane.
That reminds me....I'll post my manifesto about lifejacket use from last summer next....
Moderator
My writings from last summer:
So, the flight you’re about to fly has a risk of a water landing; this may be because it actually is a floatplane operation, or maybe that a portion of the flight will be over water, or with a water landing being the only practical escape (flying the shoreline of a city). You know in your heart, that entering the water is possible during that flight, are you prepared?
Lifejackets: Yup, got ‘em. They’re in plastic bags in the seat pocket behind you. Hmmm, if you’re being inundated with a gurgling mass of dark cold water, and thinking about how to get out, will you even think about searching behind you for a lifejacket? Could you find it, and take it with you? If you got out with it, could you don and inflate it, while struggling to remain afloat in the mean time?
Wait, the person you were flying with is just over there, and looks like they are struggling in the water, can you help them too? Oh, now you realize that though you’re out of the plane, you’re a lot more injured than you realize – your shoulder is broken, and your arm is of little use, your ankles are broken, you cannot swim – it’s getting more complicated…
But, you were prepared, you were already wearing the lifejacket while you were flying, so it went out the door with you – excellent! Do you recall how to inflate it? Your cell phone, to call for help, darn, it’s in your pocket, and soaked….
Recently, to my instant horror, I found myself floating beside the plane I had just been flying in, which was now sinking. I was calling out to my fellow pilot, as I could not see him. I had not exited the plane, I had been ejected through the windshield. I was wearing my life jacket, as I always do when water flying. My cell phone was in a waterproof bag, clipped to the life jacket, so when I was ready, and floating with stability, I could call for help.
Well, exiting through the windshield had not been an element of my planning. The life jacket was torn (as was I), and the cell phone pouch ripped off. While floating (well, sinking), I had trouble finding the inflate tabs, and my injured arm refused to assist. The manual inflation tube was perfectly positioned, and my right arm worked, so I blew breaths in to inflate. I did not realize that the lifejacket was ripped, but happily, it held enough air, that I could see the yellow pillow form at my shoulder. That modest amount of buoyant air saved my life. Then I passed out. Happily, I later learned that my fellow pilot was much less injured than I, had inflated the life jacket he was wearing, and was rescued with me.
I have the most brief recollection of a person I know telling me I’ll be alright, while hearing the sound of an outboard motor. I recall a glimpse of a fellow firefighter (I’m a volunteer firefighter in the place of the accident) telling me it’ll be alright, as he helped lift me out of the boat. One more momentary memory of another of my fellow fire fighters telling me it will be alright, while riding in the ambulance. Three days later, I came to, in critical ICU, with my family all around me, telling me how close I’d come medically to not making it. I know how close I came buoyantly to not making it!
And my phone? My wife called it for nearly two days. The waterproof case held, as it rung, and took a message, until finally the battery went flat.
So, my advice is consider your risks, and skills – if you’re flying over water, are you prepared to suddenly be in it? Injured? Needing to also assist your fellow flier? Have you practiced with a life jacket in the water? Can you exit the plane in the dark, upside down? If you chose to not wear the life jacket, can you find it, and take it with you, while rushing out in a panic? When I took the dunker course, the purpose of one exercise was to grab the lifejacket on the way out. With all the mental planning I had done, and single purpose to performing that simple task, three of four times, I left the inverted, submerged cockpit without out the life jacket – fail!
Prepare for emergencies, they don’t always give you much warning! The difference between my being rescued by boat, or being searched by police divers was my wearing my lifejacket, and managing to make the best of it, even damaged.
My advice for you from my life lesson five weeks ago…..
So, the flight you’re about to fly has a risk of a water landing; this may be because it actually is a floatplane operation, or maybe that a portion of the flight will be over water, or with a water landing being the only practical escape (flying the shoreline of a city). You know in your heart, that entering the water is possible during that flight, are you prepared?
Lifejackets: Yup, got ‘em. They’re in plastic bags in the seat pocket behind you. Hmmm, if you’re being inundated with a gurgling mass of dark cold water, and thinking about how to get out, will you even think about searching behind you for a lifejacket? Could you find it, and take it with you? If you got out with it, could you don and inflate it, while struggling to remain afloat in the mean time?
Wait, the person you were flying with is just over there, and looks like they are struggling in the water, can you help them too? Oh, now you realize that though you’re out of the plane, you’re a lot more injured than you realize – your shoulder is broken, and your arm is of little use, your ankles are broken, you cannot swim – it’s getting more complicated…
But, you were prepared, you were already wearing the lifejacket while you were flying, so it went out the door with you – excellent! Do you recall how to inflate it? Your cell phone, to call for help, darn, it’s in your pocket, and soaked….
Recently, to my instant horror, I found myself floating beside the plane I had just been flying in, which was now sinking. I was calling out to my fellow pilot, as I could not see him. I had not exited the plane, I had been ejected through the windshield. I was wearing my life jacket, as I always do when water flying. My cell phone was in a waterproof bag, clipped to the life jacket, so when I was ready, and floating with stability, I could call for help.
Well, exiting through the windshield had not been an element of my planning. The life jacket was torn (as was I), and the cell phone pouch ripped off. While floating (well, sinking), I had trouble finding the inflate tabs, and my injured arm refused to assist. The manual inflation tube was perfectly positioned, and my right arm worked, so I blew breaths in to inflate. I did not realize that the lifejacket was ripped, but happily, it held enough air, that I could see the yellow pillow form at my shoulder. That modest amount of buoyant air saved my life. Then I passed out. Happily, I later learned that my fellow pilot was much less injured than I, had inflated the life jacket he was wearing, and was rescued with me.
I have the most brief recollection of a person I know telling me I’ll be alright, while hearing the sound of an outboard motor. I recall a glimpse of a fellow firefighter (I’m a volunteer firefighter in the place of the accident) telling me it’ll be alright, as he helped lift me out of the boat. One more momentary memory of another of my fellow fire fighters telling me it will be alright, while riding in the ambulance. Three days later, I came to, in critical ICU, with my family all around me, telling me how close I’d come medically to not making it. I know how close I came buoyantly to not making it!
And my phone? My wife called it for nearly two days. The waterproof case held, as it rung, and took a message, until finally the battery went flat.
So, my advice is consider your risks, and skills – if you’re flying over water, are you prepared to suddenly be in it? Injured? Needing to also assist your fellow flier? Have you practiced with a life jacket in the water? Can you exit the plane in the dark, upside down? If you chose to not wear the life jacket, can you find it, and take it with you, while rushing out in a panic? When I took the dunker course, the purpose of one exercise was to grab the lifejacket on the way out. With all the mental planning I had done, and single purpose to performing that simple task, three of four times, I left the inverted, submerged cockpit without out the life jacket – fail!
Prepare for emergencies, they don’t always give you much warning! The difference between my being rescued by boat, or being searched by police divers was my wearing my lifejacket, and managing to make the best of it, even damaged.
My advice for you from my life lesson five weeks ago…..
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I have about 700 trouble free hours flying amphibians. A few systems problems over the years, but nothing which resulted in an unintended landing. My student had the wheels up, and properly confirmed, when a sudden, uncorrectable handling error resulted in an unhappy event.
I was told that we should have died for the force of the event, and my wife was told I might die for a day or so, but I still had things to do, so I came back. Wiser.
Even though I have taught water and ice water rescue for more than twenty years, and have taken an underwater egress course, I am now expert at finding one's self floating next to a sinking plane, having been ejected through the windshield. Avoid.
I was told that we should have died for the force of the event, and my wife was told I might die for a day or so, but I still had things to do, so I came back. Wiser.
Even though I have taught water and ice water rescue for more than twenty years, and have taken an underwater egress course, I am now expert at finding one's self floating next to a sinking plane, having been ejected through the windshield. Avoid.
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My only significant car crash involved the car rolling and ending up, via being on its roof, on its side in a ditch. I don't know how it happened, but I ended up standing in the road, unhurt, having been "ejected through the windshield".
Thread Starter
Good morning, Pilot DAR. Nice to hear from you.
I've never seen the point of a lifejacket stowed in an aircraft. Either you are wearing it, or it might as well not be with you at all. It hadn't occurred to me that it could get ripped on the way out. Though in march the water was quite cold enough to make survival unlikely, by the time anyone saw we were swimming.
The one flight I did at Biscarrosse the briefing included pretty much all of what you have posted, and in particular the undercarriage checks and evacuation procedures. And how to work the manual gear pump, available only from the front seat. The land airfield is only a couple of km from the lake, so first takeoff was from the runway, as was last landing. There is a ramp to get onto land from the lake, but it doesn't connect with the airfield where the hangar is. I flew a Super cub on amphibious floats. Gear lights (four blue, four green, and red in transit) and a mechanical indicator. Also a voice reminder of the gear position which was male for wheels down, female for wheels up.
And yes, I got to say the gear position twice per circuit.
The rate of climb wasn't too bad, two up and half tanks. Cruising speed I don't know, we didn't do any significant straight and level.
You haven't put me off, you know....I still want to do this.
I've never seen the point of a lifejacket stowed in an aircraft. Either you are wearing it, or it might as well not be with you at all. It hadn't occurred to me that it could get ripped on the way out. Though in march the water was quite cold enough to make survival unlikely, by the time anyone saw we were swimming.
The one flight I did at Biscarrosse the briefing included pretty much all of what you have posted, and in particular the undercarriage checks and evacuation procedures. And how to work the manual gear pump, available only from the front seat. The land airfield is only a couple of km from the lake, so first takeoff was from the runway, as was last landing. There is a ramp to get onto land from the lake, but it doesn't connect with the airfield where the hangar is. I flew a Super cub on amphibious floats. Gear lights (four blue, four green, and red in transit) and a mechanical indicator. Also a voice reminder of the gear position which was male for wheels down, female for wheels up.
And yes, I got to say the gear position twice per circuit.
The rate of climb wasn't too bad, two up and half tanks. Cruising speed I don't know, we didn't do any significant straight and level.
You haven't put me off, you know....I still want to do this.
Moderator
That's great Piper Classique,
It sounds like you're on the right path to really enjoying amphibian flying with safety. Don't let my posts put you off, amphib and float flying is wonderful, I'll be back splashing in a month or so when the ice melts from our lakes. My posts are cautionary, do not be casual about water flying!
It sounds like you're on the right path to really enjoying amphibian flying with safety. Don't let my posts put you off, amphib and float flying is wonderful, I'll be back splashing in a month or so when the ice melts from our lakes. My posts are cautionary, do not be casual about water flying!
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Tried that once in a Cessna 404 and it almost fell on its bum
I got good at backing up the 182
