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Question for 8.33 rules knowItAll

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Question for 8.33 rules knowItAll

Old 16th Feb 2018, 11:30
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Question for 8.33 rules knowItAll

Looking at a panel reconfigure, the COM 1 is a 430 so has the 8.33 spacing, the COM 2 is a SL 30 which doesn’t. I understand there as some new rules on channel spacing. Am I good to go legally with just one radio being 8:33 or do I have to change the other one out for 8.33 too
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Old 16th Feb 2018, 11:45
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Not claiming to know all, not by a long way. But as I read on various forums, there is one single EASA directive which the various countries interpret in their various ways. I have a vague memory of one CAA insisting both radios should "do" 8,33 but were refuted. No guarantees, though.

All this under the assumption you mean EASA-land, which in the future may or may not include UK. Outside EASA I have not the slightest idea, and am not the slightest bit interested.
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Old 16th Feb 2018, 12:00
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I'm under the impression that if it was there you can leave it there as long as you don't use it to talk to someone!
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Old 16th Feb 2018, 13:03
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CAA:
From 1 January 2018 if you need to communicate on an 8.33 kHz channel you will need to use an 8.33 kHz capable radio
In practice, you can only continue to fly with just a 25 kHz radio if throughout your entire flight you only need to communicate on 25 kHz frequencies.
From the CAA website.
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Old 16th Feb 2018, 13:04
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Originally Posted by piperboy84
Looking at a panel reconfigure, the COM 1 is a 430 so has the 8.33 spacing, the COM 2 is a SL 30 which doesn’t. I understand there as some new rules on channel spacing. Am I good to go legally with just one radio being 8:33 or do I have to change the other one out for 8.33 too
Any required COM radio must be 8.33 capable. Any surplus to the required minimum need not be, but must not be used to transmit on 8.33 channels. For non-commercial VFR in the UK, the requirement is for one COM radio.

There's a strong incentive in the UK for airfields to convert their frequencies to 8.33, as the licence fee is about 1/3 of that for a 25 kHz channel. So you may find that, if you're used to a 2 COM-box operation, you'll want to convert the second to 8.33 sooner rather than later for practical reasons.
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Old 16th Feb 2018, 15:09
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Similar situation

PB84, leave the SL40 in place so you can use the nav functions, but you need to placard the com side "for emergency use only". Effectively you are only supposed to use it for 121.5 and a couple of other frequencies since Jan 1st. Have done same with my KX155 so that I still have a glideslope.
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Old 16th Feb 2018, 15:54
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Originally Posted by Curlytips
PB84, leave the SL40 in place so you can use the nav functions, but you need to placard the com side "for emergency use only". Effectively you are only supposed to use it for 121.5 and a couple of other frequencies since Jan 1st. Have done same with my KX155 so that I still have a glideslope.
I actually have the following units in the Maule I crashed

https://www.valavionics.com/ins-429.html

http://www.ps-engineering.com/PAR200.shtml

So if I pull out the old audio panel (PMA 7000) and install the PAR200 I can pull the Sl30 out use the stand alone Val429 for the NAV 2 VOR/GS and because the PAR200 has a buildin 8.33 I pick up some shelf space with the Sl30 gone to properly install my VFR Garmin Aera 660 this sticks up above the glare shield about the same thickness as the SL30. So it’ll look like a custom fit ( see vid https://youtu.be/i80m-rVZWRE). Granted it’s a whole bunch of rewiring but worth it
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Old 16th Feb 2018, 16:37
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For non-commercial VFR in the UK, the requirement is for one COM radio
.


Since when is it a requirement to carry a radio at all?
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Old 16th Feb 2018, 18:28
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Since never, unless of course you want to enter controlled airspace. And while international travel is not actually impossible without doing so, it is very very difficult.
So, local bimble nordo, yes, fine. More than that means radio and transponder or some very convoluted routes.
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Old 16th Feb 2018, 18:38
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More than that means radio and transponder or some very convoluted routes.
Radio: yes. Though I know some... who have ... at some time ... You may be very sure there is a fair amount of microlight traffic between BE and FR with no radio at all, or stand-by listening at best. I'll not say from which BE field instructors would routinely take their pupils to Maubeuge for touch and go's on the hard runway - nice complicated airspace with gliders and paradrop but never a syllable on the radio...

Transponder: not necessarily. I have flown from BE to Germany and France with no transponder, no issues. Though Langen Information audibly raised an eyebrow "Oscar Oscar ... , confirm negative transponder?" "Langen Information, I SAY AGAIN, negative transponder, Oscar, Oscar, ... " after which the lady came with a very sensible and workable solution.
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Old 17th Feb 2018, 19:39
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Since never, unless of course you want to enter controlled airspace.
Ah, but since this thread is addressed to 'rules knowItAlls', have you read the definition of controlled airspace in Schedule 1 to the The Air Navigation Order 2016? It says: ""Controlled airspace” means airspace which has been notified as Class A airspace, Class B airspace, Class C airspace, Class D airspace, Class E airspace, Class F airspace or Class G airspace;"

After checking that reference you may want to read ORS4 No. 1238 - General Exemption E 4536 which is valid to 30th September.
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Old 17th Feb 2018, 20:58
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The CAA have recently given a temporary dispensation:

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Old 18th Feb 2018, 05:10
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"Controlled airspace” means airspace which has been notified as Class A airspace, Class B airspace, Class C airspace, Class D airspace, Class E airspace, Class F airspace or Class G airspace;"
I'd like to know what they then classify as "uncontrolled airspace".
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Old 18th Feb 2018, 07:28
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Well, everything else. Obvious, innit?

Probably only accessible to US and Shuttle pilots though...
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Old 18th Feb 2018, 07:31
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Unless you're overhead Australia:

"Class G is used wherever other classes are not..."

I hope the Space station is 8.33 compliant...
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Old 18th Feb 2018, 13:23
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I think I read somewhere once that all airspace above 35000ft over the UK is class A.
I may be wrong, I usually am.
At the time I thought, this makes it illegal to leave the planet without an IR.
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Old 18th Feb 2018, 14:50
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https://www.pprune.org/spectators-balcony-spotters-corner/169276-how-high-does-controlled-airspace-go.html
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Old 18th Feb 2018, 18:40
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Well, I did once fly from Poland to home in France Nordo (radio died en route). It involved a fair number of grovelling phone calls. No transponder, either.
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Old 18th Feb 2018, 19:01
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have you read the definition of controlled airspace in Schedule 1 to the The Air Navigation Order 2016? It says: ""Controlled airspace” means airspace which has been notified as Class A airspace, Class B airspace, Class C airspace, Class D airspace, Class E airspace, Class F airspace or Class G airspace;"
As it often does the ANO is contradicting itself and talking bollox, if Class G was controlled airspace then how on earth (or above it) could you have an ATSOCAS?

In the UK there are currently five classes of airspace; A,C,D,E and G. The classification of the airspace within a FIR determines the flight rules which apply and the minimum air traffic services which are to be provided. Classes A, C, D and E are areas of controlled airspace and G is uncontrolled airspace.
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Old 19th Feb 2018, 08:31
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As it often does the ANO is contradicting itself and talking bollox, if Class G was controlled airspace then how on earth (or above it) could you have an ATSOCAS?
Hence ORS4 No. 1238 - General Exemption E 4536. During the drafting of the Air Navigation Order 2016 class F and class G airspace were erroneously included in the definition of controlled airspace in Schedule 1. This exemption is necessary to alleviate from any adverse consequences as a result of this, until such time as the Order can be appropriately amended.
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