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Old 13th Jan 2018, 17:54   #1 (permalink)


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Question What can you fly in Europe?

Is there a list somewhere of the different categories of things that fly in Europe?

Something like (for fixed wing):

Certified
Light Sport
Microlight
Home-built
Experimental
Annex 2
etc. etc.

What of these are the same, why are they different etc.?

I'm trying to get a handle on what appears to be quite a complex area but must be, in reality, fairly simple. We're running a competition later this year, and I would like to have a clear idea of what is what...
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Old 13th Jan 2018, 18:32   #2 (permalink)
 
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Your list there has substantial overlaps in it. Perhaps you could expand somewhat on what the exam question is?

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Old 13th Jan 2018, 18:36   #3 (permalink)


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Not an exam question! And understood that there will be overlaps and omissions!

I'm trying to create categories for our competition (in Belgium), I need help!

I currently have prizes for the following (but I know it already has errors):

Vintage (pre 1949) Biplane
Vintage (pre 1949) Monoplane
Standard Category
Light Sport/Microlight
Turbine
Experimental
Overall Winner (they will win two prizes, their category and this one)
Youngest pilot
Oldest pilot
Oldest plane
Heaviest plane
Furthest travelled (still need to define how this is decided)
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Old 13th Jan 2018, 19:57   #4 (permalink)
 
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Our Jodel DR1050 was originally factory built, and had a C of A issued by the French DGAC.
It is now Annex 1? Or 2? ( As there was never an Annex 1 list, I think Annex 2 has been relabeled Annex 1.) It's on a UK LAA Permit.
Is Experimental a European category? Non-EASA aircraft categories may vary across the sovereign states.
Hope this confuses you enough to appreciate Europe.:-)
Why no heaviest pilot award?:-(
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Old 13th Jan 2018, 20:59   #5 (permalink)
 
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Experimental means different things in different countries, so does microlight.

Why not use the FAI airsports & records categories in the first instance...

https://www.fai.org/records

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Old 14th Jan 2018, 07:21   #6 (permalink)


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Thanks Maoraigh1, yup, it's complicated.

Heaviest pilot, well, it is a STOL competition so lighter pilots should do better!

Genghis, thank you. We're going to be an FAI event, so in fact they're good to ask.

As an aside, if anyone has other ideas (either for categories or other prizes), please let me know - we're right in this phase of the planning...
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Old 14th Jan 2018, 15:19   #7 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
It is now Annex 1? Or 2? ( As there was never an Annex 1 list, I think Annex 2 has been relabeled Annex 1.)
Regulation (EU) 216/2008 has a series of Annexes of which Annex I is a list of essential requirements for airworthiness. Annex II to the Regulation is a list of the categories of aircraft that are not required to comply with Annex I (or any other EU Regulations) but are regulated by individual member states (just like the good old days). There is no need for an "Annex 1 list" as any aircraft not falling under Annex II is, by default, an EASA aircraft.

If, as I believe to be the case, factory production of the DR1050 was stopped before 1 Jan 1975, it is an 'Annex II' aeroplane.
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Old 14th Jan 2018, 17:05   #8 (permalink)


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Are UK SSDR microlights allowed to fly in Belgium?, an Escapade kid with a 582 might do well.
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Old 14th Jan 2018, 17:29   #9 (permalink)


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So, I now currently have prizes for the following (but I know it already has errors):

Vintage (pre 1949) Biplane
Vintage (pre 1949) Monoplane
Standard Biplane
Standard monoplane
Light Sport/Microlight
Turbine
Experimental/Homebuilt


Overall Winner (they will win two prizes, their category and this one)
Youngest pilot
Oldest pilot
Oldest plane
Heaviest plane
Furthest travelled (still need to define how this is decided)

Is that going to do it, or do I still have an overlap LSA/Microlight with Experimental/Homebuilt? And where does Annex 2 fit in here?
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Old 14th Jan 2018, 22:54   #10 (permalink)
 
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LSA and Microlight are going to be quite different in your context of STOL behaviour.

Microlights are up to 35 knots stall speed, and depending upon country somewhere in the bracket 450-495kg.

LSA (Light Sports Aircraft) also vary a bit, but will nominally be up to 45knots stall speed and 600kg.

I think that if I was running something like this I'd go for some nice round numbers...

"Microlight" - MTOW below 501kg, stall speed not greater than 35kts CAS.

"Very Light" - MTOW below 751kg, stall speed not greater than 45 kts CAS. This will pick up the LSA and VLA categories and a lot of nice smaller light aeroplanes.

"Light" - MTOW below 2001kg, stall speed now greater than 61 kts CAS.

That would align quite well with present regulatory categories, but give the flexibility for people to shoehorn aeroplanes in and game it interestingly.

I should ignore Annex II (now known as Annex I) - all that defines is aeroplanes not managed by EASA.

"Experimental" means different things in different countries. But, at first stab, you could divide categories between "as certified in state of registry" and "modified". That would be relatively honest, but good luck getting permission to fly all these foreign modified aeroplanes.

If you want to create some possible interest and excitement, try adding a category for "fully electric".

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Old 15th Jan 2018, 00:19   #11 (permalink)
 
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I should ignore Annex II (now known as Annex I)
Known by who as Annex I? AFAIK Annex I remains the essential requirements for airworthiness.
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Old 15th Jan 2018, 07:51   #12 (permalink)


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Thank you for that, and great idea for electric! A real chance to give this area a boost!

Currently have:

Vintage Biplane (pre 1959)
Vintage Monoplane (pre 1959)
Standard Category Biplane (>750KG)
Standard Category Monoplane (>750KG)
Light Sport (>500KG - <751KG)
3-Axis Microlight (<501KG)
Turbine
Electric
Overall Winner (combined with another category)

Which is rather more than planned, but we need to keep it inclusive and 'fair'...

Last edited by Sam Rutherford; 15th Jan 2018 at 08:02.
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Old 15th Jan 2018, 09:16   #13 (permalink)
 
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Originally Posted by Sam Rutherford View Post
Thank you for that, and great idea for electric! A real chance to give this area a boost!

Currently have:

Vintage Biplane (pre 1959)
Vintage Monoplane (pre 1959)
Standard Category Biplane (>750KG)
Standard Category Monoplane (>750KG)
Light Sport (>500KG - <751KG)
3-Axis Microlight (<501KG)
Turbine
Electric
Overall Winner (combined with another category)

Which is rather more than planned, but we need to keep it inclusive and 'fair'...
Shame no helicopters. So I won’t be going
md 600 driver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15th Jan 2018, 09:18   #14 (permalink)


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Sorry, should have been clearer (wanted to avoid being accused of advertising!). It's a STOL competition - so, erm, not really for helis!
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Old 15th Jan 2018, 10:32   #15 (permalink)
 
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Originally Posted by Sam Rutherford View Post
Sorry, should have been clearer (wanted to avoid being accused of advertising!). It's a STOL competition - so, erm, not really for helis!
I have access to a Harrier, although a long trip from the USA, will that qualify ?
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Old 15th Jan 2018, 12:43   #16 (permalink)
 
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A real chance to give this area a boost!
Watt a great pun - currently my favourite although there may be some resistance.....
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Old 15th Jan 2018, 13:42   #17 (permalink)
 
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No VOLTige arienne?

TOO
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Old 15th Jan 2018, 15:09   #18 (permalink)


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Harrier qualifies in turbine category, bring it on!

Discharged by the puns, watt a shock. Transforming the cable to zero capacity - very polarising.
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Old 16th Jan 2018, 05:56   #19 (permalink)
 
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Why in Belgium, Sam?
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Old 16th Jan 2018, 11:48   #20 (permalink)
 
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Hi Sam,

Great idea and good luck with your STOL competition.

I do hope there will be a webcam focused on the area of landing , and you could promote it via facebook live streaming.

You mentioned ideas for prizes , and as a printer I see more and more of these wood photo's being asked for
https://www.youtube.com/results?sear...rce=opensearch

so a photo or logo of your STOL competition [email protected] etched on a bit of wood , looks surprisingly good and it is quite cheap to produce.

hth,
Fionn
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