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Possible Pilot Deviation

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Possible Pilot Deviation

Old 6th Dec 2017, 01:23
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Hello everyone! Im a private instrument rated pilot. Im new in the aviation field, and I recently found myself 500 ft. above the floor of class B airspace without authorization. I was with my instructor practicing some commercial maneuvers. Before landing, the tower controller told me that there was a possible pilot deviation and that I needed to call a number. After landing, I called the number and the lady wrote down my name, pilot number, and phone number and told me that somebody will contact me. I called the same number next day, and they told me that they send the report to the local FSDO, and that somebody will contact me in a few days. What should I expect? What should I do? Did anybody recently have a similar experience? What did you do to solve the problem? Thank you in advance for any comment or suggestion.
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Old 6th Dec 2017, 06:03
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It depends.
You may not know if you actually caused a problem for ATC or not.
Did they have to move another airplane as they had a loss of separation? Or was it simply a short stray into Class B?
Are you rated in the airplane? Im assuming it is a complex airplane?
Do you have your complex endorsements yet?
If yes you have been the ( shared) PIC and if not your CFI is the PIC any default.
That doesnt completely put you in the clear as you should have known better in the eyes of the FAA but it will make you less guilty and your CFI more. They would definitely want to talk to your CFI also.
If you are an AOPA member get in contact with their legal department.
If not start looking for an aviation attorney.
Do NOT assume the FAA is ever on your side.
Do not volunteer information.

500 is not that much.
300 is the allowed max deviation on a transponder.
That plus an incorrect altimeter setting can get you close.

Your instructor should have known better. What were you doing? Chandelles under a Class B?
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Old 6th Dec 2017, 06:27
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Hand it all over to your instructor - they were Captain.

Ask him if he could let you know what happened when it's settled.

G
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Old 6th Dec 2017, 07:15
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It sounds like you're in the US. In that case you MUST file an ASRS as soon as possible - like NOW. Just search for 'NTSB ASRS' if you don't know how to do it. That SHOULD protect you from certificate action (i.e. losing your license) as long as you can show it was an accident and it was the first time. But you only have a limited time (10 days I think) to do it.

As others have said, your instructor is in deeper doodoo than you are. For one thing his livelihood depends on this, and for another, this is exactly the kind of thing an instructor should be keeping an eye on. Whether he would be considered PIC is a judgement call for the FSDO, as long as you have all the ratings and qualifications needed for the aircraft. But it's very likely.
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Old 6th Dec 2017, 07:39
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The PIC thing could be relatively simply decided. What did you log, and what did he log?

Of course, the fact you're asking all this here means that your instructor is busy keeping well clear - so that's also a conversation you may need to have....
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Old 6th Dec 2017, 07:48
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The PIC thing could be relatively simply decided.
From what I've read (I'm pleased to say I have no first-hand experience), if this was an instructional flight, i.e. the instructor was being paid to instruct, the FAA will pretty much inevitably consider him/her to be PIC. There have even been grey areas where a CFI was along for the ride but not being paid, and still held to be PIC on the basis of being the most qualified pilot. If the instructor isn't worried, he certainly SHOULD be.

Incidentally about the worst that can happen, as long as you file an ASRS, it really was an accident, and there was no real danger (no airliners getting RAs for example), is that you could be required to do an FAA checkride (I forget the jargon for this). All best avoided though, and a good reason for being VERY careful with Class B airspace.
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Old 6th Dec 2017, 07:52
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Pretty much perfect summary!
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Old 6th Dec 2017, 08:16
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the FAA will pretty much inevitably consider him/her to be PIC
There is no "pretty much" that I can see here. An instructor delivering instruction on board is ALWAYS the PiC.

The OP is doing himself no favours by allowing any suggestion otherwise.

I have been accused of infringing class A whilst instructing a qualified pilot (I didn't, but that is another story). Whilst I needed some supporting information from my student this was always about my command of the aircraft, and my licence.

G
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Old 6th Dec 2017, 11:10
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From your terminology, one assumes this took place in the USA. If so file an ASRS right away, and in the REPORTER section, put something like 'Pilot Under Training'

Also ask if the instructor has filed one, but whether or not they have, do your own.

the form is here

https://asrs.arc.nasa.gov/report/cav...rmType=general

What others have said above about PIC etc is true, but the FAA is very different to the CAA. We are discussing a pilot deviation report being placed on your FAA history , not a prosecution. Yes, the instructor is likely going to get in trouble/may also get a deviation , but regardless there is a good chance of getting a pilot deviation filed against you. You are instrument rated and a commercial student, the FAA will consider you to be a skilled pilot who should know better, so get that ASRS report straight in and be humble !
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Old 6th Dec 2017, 14:05
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We all make mistakes, it's how we handle them that defines who we are (or how the FAA views the future of our certificate). This article is a great lesson in how to respond to a screw up -
I Flew into a Presidential TFR - Hangaround
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