Possible Pilot Deviation
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Many Places
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hello everyone! I´m a private instrument rated pilot. I´m new in the aviation field, and I recently found myself 500 ft. above the floor of class B airspace without authorization. I was with my instructor practicing some commercial maneuvers. Before landing, the tower controller told me that there was a possible pilot deviation and that I needed to call a number. After landing, I called the number and the lady wrote down my name, pilot number, and phone number and told me that somebody will contact me. I called the same number next day, and they told me that they send the report to the local FSDO, and that somebody will contact me in a few days. What should I expect? What should I do? Did anybody recently have a similar experience? What did you do to solve the problem? Thank you in advance for any comment or suggestion.
It depends.
You may not know if you actually caused a problem for ATC or not.
Did they have to move another airplane as they had a loss of separation? Or was it simply a short stray into Class B?
Are you rated in the airplane? I’m assuming it is a complex airplane?
Do you have your complex endorsements yet?
If yes you have been the ( shared) PIC and if not your CFI is the PIC any default.
That doesn’t completely put you in the clear as you should have known better in the eyes of the FAA but it will make you less guilty and your CFI more. They would definitely want to talk to your CFI also.
If you are an AOPA member get in contact with their legal department.
If not start looking for an aviation attorney.
Do NOT assume the FAA is ever on your side.
Do not volunteer information.
500’ is not that much.
300’ is the allowed max deviation on a transponder.
That plus an incorrect altimeter setting can get you close.
Your instructor should have known better. What were you doing? Chandelles under a Class B?
You may not know if you actually caused a problem for ATC or not.
Did they have to move another airplane as they had a loss of separation? Or was it simply a short stray into Class B?
Are you rated in the airplane? I’m assuming it is a complex airplane?
Do you have your complex endorsements yet?
If yes you have been the ( shared) PIC and if not your CFI is the PIC any default.
That doesn’t completely put you in the clear as you should have known better in the eyes of the FAA but it will make you less guilty and your CFI more. They would definitely want to talk to your CFI also.
If you are an AOPA member get in contact with their legal department.
If not start looking for an aviation attorney.
Do NOT assume the FAA is ever on your side.
Do not volunteer information.
500’ is not that much.
300’ is the allowed max deviation on a transponder.
That plus an incorrect altimeter setting can get you close.
Your instructor should have known better. What were you doing? Chandelles under a Class B?
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: LFBZ (for a while)
Posts: 743
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It sounds like you're in the US. In that case you MUST file an ASRS as soon as possible - like NOW. Just search for 'NTSB ASRS' if you don't know how to do it. That SHOULD protect you from certificate action (i.e. losing your license) as long as you can show it was an accident and it was the first time. But you only have a limited time (10 days I think) to do it.
As others have said, your instructor is in deeper doodoo than you are. For one thing his livelihood depends on this, and for another, this is exactly the kind of thing an instructor should be keeping an eye on. Whether he would be considered PIC is a judgement call for the FSDO, as long as you have all the ratings and qualifications needed for the aircraft. But it's very likely.
As others have said, your instructor is in deeper doodoo than you are. For one thing his livelihood depends on this, and for another, this is exactly the kind of thing an instructor should be keeping an eye on. Whether he would be considered PIC is a judgement call for the FSDO, as long as you have all the ratings and qualifications needed for the aircraft. But it's very likely.
The PIC thing could be relatively simply decided. What did you log, and what did he log?
Of course, the fact you're asking all this here means that your instructor is busy keeping well clear - so that's also a conversation you may need to have....
Of course, the fact you're asking all this here means that your instructor is busy keeping well clear - so that's also a conversation you may need to have....
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: LFBZ (for a while)
Posts: 743
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The PIC thing could be relatively simply decided.
Incidentally about the worst that can happen, as long as you file an ASRS, it really was an accident, and there was no real danger (no airliners getting RAs for example), is that you could be required to do an FAA checkride (I forget the jargon for this). All best avoided though, and a good reason for being VERY careful with Class B airspace.
the FAA will pretty much inevitably consider him/her to be PIC
The OP is doing himself no favours by allowing any suggestion otherwise.
I have been accused of infringing class A whilst instructing a qualified pilot (I didn't, but that is another story). Whilst I needed some supporting information from my student this was always about my command of the aircraft, and my licence.
G
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: london
Age: 59
Posts: 437
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From your terminology, one assumes this took place in the USA. If so file an ASRS right away, and in the REPORTER section, put something like 'Pilot Under Training'
Also ask if the instructor has filed one, but whether or not they have, do your own.
the form is here
https://asrs.arc.nasa.gov/report/cav...rmType=general
What others have said above about PIC etc is true, but the FAA is very different to the CAA. We are discussing a pilot deviation report being placed on your FAA history , not a prosecution. Yes, the instructor is likely going to get in trouble/may also get a deviation , but regardless there is a good chance of getting a pilot deviation filed against you. You are instrument rated and a commercial student, the FAA will consider you to be a skilled pilot who should know better, so get that ASRS report straight in and be humble !
Also ask if the instructor has filed one, but whether or not they have, do your own.
the form is here
https://asrs.arc.nasa.gov/report/cav...rmType=general
What others have said above about PIC etc is true, but the FAA is very different to the CAA. We are discussing a pilot deviation report being placed on your FAA history , not a prosecution. Yes, the instructor is likely going to get in trouble/may also get a deviation , but regardless there is a good chance of getting a pilot deviation filed against you. You are instrument rated and a commercial student, the FAA will consider you to be a skilled pilot who should know better, so get that ASRS report straight in and be humble !
Life's too short for ironing
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Scotland, & Maryland, USA
Posts: 1,147
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
We all make mistakes, it's how we handle them that defines who we are (or how the FAA views the future of our certificate). This article is a great lesson in how to respond to a screw up -
I Flew into a Presidential TFR - Hangaround
I Flew into a Presidential TFR - Hangaround
