France restricted areas!
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France restricted areas!
Greetings every, my first post so be kind...
I am planning on going to France in August. I just got the maps this morning, along with the Jeppesen Bottlang Manual (1.5KG!).
Anyway, I opened up the map...and it was RED! Restricted areas all over the joint.
Is this for real or just a faulty map? What do we do about them when flying? Surely we can't dodge them! They're all over!
I am planning on going to the following places, any advice would be much appreciated:
Calais, Le Havre, Le Mans, Poitiers, Anderons, Lezignan, Carcasonne, Marseille, Valence, Dijons, Chalons...
Any advice/information would be much appreciated.
I am planning on going to France in August. I just got the maps this morning, along with the Jeppesen Bottlang Manual (1.5KG!).
Anyway, I opened up the map...and it was RED! Restricted areas all over the joint.
Is this for real or just a faulty map? What do we do about them when flying? Surely we can't dodge them! They're all over!
I am planning on going to the following places, any advice would be much appreciated:
Calais, Le Havre, Le Mans, Poitiers, Anderons, Lezignan, Carcasonne, Marseille, Valence, Dijons, Chalons...
Any advice/information would be much appreciated.
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I guess the red bits you are referring to are the military corridors and zone. Don't worry too much about this, the ATC can let you know if they are active or not (Military pilots don't tend to work at week ends). Furthermore, quite a few of them have "rather low upper limits".
I have been flying over here for more than a year now and it's really relaxed and easy.
I have been flying over here for more than a year now and it's really relaxed and easy.
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OBK - you are not the first who asks this, you won't be the last.
So many people look at aviation maps and forget to think 3-dimensional. As CBG points out a lot of those areas top out at 2700' msl, a lot of them are not active at weekends (your Bottlang lists time of activity - I use those too). France is a country that lends itself to cruising at 45/55 in a light single. Relax, plan properly and you'll realise that the majority of those areas won't affect you. Why do you think everyone raves about flying in France
CM
So many people look at aviation maps and forget to think 3-dimensional. As CBG points out a lot of those areas top out at 2700' msl, a lot of them are not active at weekends (your Bottlang lists time of activity - I use those too). France is a country that lends itself to cruising at 45/55 in a light single. Relax, plan properly and you'll realise that the majority of those areas won't affect you. Why do you think everyone raves about flying in France
CM
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Cheers guys! A little more observation wouldn't do any harm...my fault!
Anyway, the other issue is HOTELS!
I don't know Francais...how did you cope? At the moment, it's going to be a "get there and find out" situation...no planning.
I am taking a tent incase...I have been told you can camp out at Anderons in Bordeaux...lot's of GREEN out there!
Anyway thanks again guys for your help. Btw, anybody been to Anderons before? That really does look like hell with the R's and D's areas. Or maybe I should just stop worrying!
Anyway, the other issue is HOTELS!
I don't know Francais...how did you cope? At the moment, it's going to be a "get there and find out" situation...no planning.
I am taking a tent incase...I have been told you can camp out at Anderons in Bordeaux...lot's of GREEN out there!
Anyway thanks again guys for your help. Btw, anybody been to Anderons before? That really does look like hell with the R's and D's areas. Or maybe I should just stop worrying!
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The best way for a hassle free flight is to know the local rules.
There is a pack of maps and two reference books available called Documents-VFR published by the French Service de l'information Aeronautic.
The pack contains local VFR rules, all Restricted and Danger areas and their dimensions, operational hours and frequencies.
The pack is in French and in English and is in some UK pilot supply shops.
Its not that expensive, I think I paid about £15.
Check the French vizibility requirements for SVFR, they are down to 1.5k in some cases.
There is no quadrantal rule, its semicircular at specific levels, and heights for overflight of towns and cities are stricter than UK.
There is a pack of maps and two reference books available called Documents-VFR published by the French Service de l'information Aeronautic.
The pack contains local VFR rules, all Restricted and Danger areas and their dimensions, operational hours and frequencies.
The pack is in French and in English and is in some UK pilot supply shops.
Its not that expensive, I think I paid about £15.
Check the French vizibility requirements for SVFR, they are down to 1.5k in some cases.
There is no quadrantal rule, its semicircular at specific levels, and heights for overflight of towns and cities are stricter than UK.
Last edited by bluskis; 15th Jul 2002 at 18:59.
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One of the most useful things I found in the 'Documents VFR' pack is the 1:1000000 map (two of them in fact, one for the north and one for the south). The IGN charts only cover airspace up to 5000 feet and I had to use three of them for a flight last week from Geneva to the UK. Major chart folding exercise required!!
Seems that once you are above 5000 feet you will be flying in the airways which are all marked on the 1:1000000 charts. You have to fly using the semicircular rule at the appropriate FL for your track.
What I am still trying to find out is whether once you are above 5000 feet you can go places where there is no airway marked or whether you *have* to follow the airways. At one point ATC seemed quite happy for us to route direct from one VOR to another which had no airway joining them. They simply asked us to fly at the correct FL and to carry on. I'd like to get to the bottom of this before I go again!
Have fun talking to Paris Information - they don't seem very big on information, but I guess they must be in Paris somewhere!!!
Seems that once you are above 5000 feet you will be flying in the airways which are all marked on the 1:1000000 charts. You have to fly using the semicircular rule at the appropriate FL for your track.
What I am still trying to find out is whether once you are above 5000 feet you can go places where there is no airway marked or whether you *have* to follow the airways. At one point ATC seemed quite happy for us to route direct from one VOR to another which had no airway joining them. They simply asked us to fly at the correct FL and to carry on. I'd like to get to the bottom of this before I go again!
Have fun talking to Paris Information - they don't seem very big on information, but I guess they must be in Paris somewhere!!!
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Oh... and if you are going to go into a restricted area you can just ask on the radio if it is active or not.
We were heading towards one that was marked as at our level and simply asked Reims Info for its status. The answer was quite amusing... we were first told it was inactive. Then that it would be active in 5 minutes time, and then that it was only active up to 2600 feet. Since we were at FL85 at the time we just ploughed on.
We were heading towards one that was marked as at our level and simply asked Reims Info for its status. The answer was quite amusing... we were first told it was inactive. Then that it would be active in 5 minutes time, and then that it was only active up to 2600 feet. Since we were at FL85 at the time we just ploughed on.
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As CM said, the French "red bits" aren't much of a problem. If you have Bottlang, you don't need any other book since all the details are in there.
You do need to do a reasonable "plog" and check on the areas you're likely to want to enter. Look 'em up in Bottlang to find the specifics.
Most of the red is low-level (military jets playing wargames), often "cold" at weekends, and most of it you can get cleared through anyway if you call on the relevant frequency (also in Bottlang).
NEVER call Paris Info. It's not there to provide Info, it's there to yell at dumb British pilots who have the temerity to wake up the controller. Talk to ANYONE else listed on your chart etc - I've found them all most helpful.
And yes, you can fly any track you like (just about) between places/VORs. If you like the reassurance, talk to the relevant Controller, get a squawk (even) and tell them what you want to do.
You do need to do a reasonable "plog" and check on the areas you're likely to want to enter. Look 'em up in Bottlang to find the specifics.
Most of the red is low-level (military jets playing wargames), often "cold" at weekends, and most of it you can get cleared through anyway if you call on the relevant frequency (also in Bottlang).
NEVER call Paris Info. It's not there to provide Info, it's there to yell at dumb British pilots who have the temerity to wake up the controller. Talk to ANYONE else listed on your chart etc - I've found them all most helpful.
And yes, you can fly any track you like (just about) between places/VORs. If you like the reassurance, talk to the relevant Controller, get a squawk (even) and tell them what you want to do.
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One last thing before I put lines of my map...(lol, look how late it is...I am excite though!)...do all airfields accept English on the radio?
My french isn't too good....C in GCSE
Thanks again
OBK
My french isn't too good....C in GCSE
Thanks again
OBK
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All airports and FIR controllers speak English, but French is often used between locals and ATC.
At smaller airfields there can be A/G French only, air to air French only, and on some frequencies including military, a recorded message in French if the radio frequency is temporarily unmanned or out of hours.
As to best maps and docs it is a personal choice. Jepp do a comprehensive pack of airfield info and VFR plates. Aerad publish a Europe and Middle East Supplement monthly, with every frequency listed as well as details of airfields.
For topo's I prefer the IGN 500,000 to Jepps, although the colours used are not the best.
At smaller airfields there can be A/G French only, air to air French only, and on some frequencies including military, a recorded message in French if the radio frequency is temporarily unmanned or out of hours.
As to best maps and docs it is a personal choice. Jepp do a comprehensive pack of airfield info and VFR plates. Aerad publish a Europe and Middle East Supplement monthly, with every frequency listed as well as details of airfields.
For topo's I prefer the IGN 500,000 to Jepps, although the colours used are not the best.
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