Thinking of buying a PA38
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 5,658
Likes: 501
From: Canada
I have flown the PA 38 including instructing in it. Flying wise it is a pretty decent handling airplane and the killer spin rep is a total myth as there is nothing wrong with the spin characteristics.
The one thing that really put me off the aircraft was the brutally crap build quality. A Yugo looks better built than this aeroplane. It is no coincidence that virtually every flying school has gotten rid of them and in many cases gone back to Cessna 152's.
Personally if you are looking for a good certified 2 seater, go look at the Grumman AA1B or even better a AA1C. Less money than a 152, an honest 10 knots faster and with delightful handing, great visibility, thanks to the canopy, and a surprisingly wide and comfortable cockpit.
I have owned a AA1B for 17 years and found it a cheap and cheerful run about. It has proven very reliable and it is fully supported by Fletch Air.
The Grummans have an excellent type club at aya.org.
The one thing that really put me off the aircraft was the brutally crap build quality. A Yugo looks better built than this aeroplane. It is no coincidence that virtually every flying school has gotten rid of them and in many cases gone back to Cessna 152's.
Personally if you are looking for a good certified 2 seater, go look at the Grumman AA1B or even better a AA1C. Less money than a 152, an honest 10 knots faster and with delightful handing, great visibility, thanks to the canopy, and a surprisingly wide and comfortable cockpit.
I have owned a AA1B for 17 years and found it a cheap and cheerful run about. It has proven very reliable and it is fully supported by Fletch Air.
The Grummans have an excellent type club at aya.org.
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 565
Likes: 0
From: N/A
I learned to fly in the late 1970s in Piper Tomahawks G-DYOU, TOO, CAN and FLY.
Fast forward almost 40 years, and I was looking for a plane for my children to learn to fly in.
I settled on a Cessna 172M as their primary/intermediate trainer - hour builder.
With a 150hp engine that runs on mo-gas. We can afford to fly it all day, every day.
The old Cessna got a complete overhaul.
America is littered with unused, unloved and unwanted planes.
If your involved with aviation you'll be bombarded with offers of cheap planes.
Why only last week I turned down a free tuna tank Cessna 310.
The only problem is they cost an awful lot to fix up, and if you get an unpopular model your stuck with it.
People don't restore Tomahawks in America. Once the engine is worn out, this are pushed to the weeds.
The Beechcraft Skipper is in the same unwanted category.
My local airport has an abandoned Skipper, that you can have for free.
But if I lived in England and had a hangar, I think I'd buy something like a Robin H100.
A friend has a Tomahawk.
He picked it up for $5000 at an estate sale.
He didn't chose it, the plane chose him.
He was the only bidder who turned up, and got it at the opening bid price.
I wonder what would have happened if he wasn't there.
He's flying the living daylights out of it, and it does all he asks of it
Like he says he's just there to 'run it out', then 'part it out'.
But he's already out grown it, and is looking for something else.
I think he wants a Grumman Tiger next.
Fast forward almost 40 years, and I was looking for a plane for my children to learn to fly in.
I settled on a Cessna 172M as their primary/intermediate trainer - hour builder.
With a 150hp engine that runs on mo-gas. We can afford to fly it all day, every day.
The old Cessna got a complete overhaul.
America is littered with unused, unloved and unwanted planes.
If your involved with aviation you'll be bombarded with offers of cheap planes.
Why only last week I turned down a free tuna tank Cessna 310.
The only problem is they cost an awful lot to fix up, and if you get an unpopular model your stuck with it.
People don't restore Tomahawks in America. Once the engine is worn out, this are pushed to the weeds.
The Beechcraft Skipper is in the same unwanted category.
My local airport has an abandoned Skipper, that you can have for free.
But if I lived in England and had a hangar, I think I'd buy something like a Robin H100.
A friend has a Tomahawk.
He picked it up for $5000 at an estate sale.
He didn't chose it, the plane chose him.
He was the only bidder who turned up, and got it at the opening bid price.
I wonder what would have happened if he wasn't there.
He's flying the living daylights out of it, and it does all he asks of it
Like he says he's just there to 'run it out', then 'part it out'.
But he's already out grown it, and is looking for something else.
I think he wants a Grumman Tiger next.
Last edited by button push ignored; 22nd August 2017 at 14:01.
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 9
Likes: 2
From: Hampshire
They surely do restore them or, why the wing spar mod ?
You might have cause to regret a Robin HR100. I owned one and one day the flap deployment motor failed. Getting spares out of Robin is like asking a Yorkshireman for a loan.
The position of the motor in the a/c makes it all but inaccessible. The a/c disappeared for about two months and I received a huge bill. That, plus the bill for the Star annual as it then was removed me from the list of Robin satisfied customers. That said, the a/c was a delight to fly.
You might have cause to regret a Robin HR100. I owned one and one day the flap deployment motor failed. Getting spares out of Robin is like asking a Yorkshireman for a loan.
The position of the motor in the a/c makes it all but inaccessible. The a/c disappeared for about two months and I received a huge bill. That, plus the bill for the Star annual as it then was removed me from the list of Robin satisfied customers. That said, the a/c was a delight to fly.
Moderator
Joined: Feb 2000
Aviation Qualifications: CPL
Posts: 14,480
Likes: 178
From: UK
I think he wants a Grumman Tiger next.
I've never flown one, but suspect that BPF's views on AA1s may well be good here in the UK also - there's a reasonable amount of expertise around on how to operate and maintain them, and Mattair at Bournemouth are a very ready source of spares if needed for all of the Grummans.
G
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 192
Likes: 0
From: Ireland
People don't restore Tomahawks in America. Once the engine is done, this are pushed to the weeds.
Joined: Dec 2001
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 3,766
Likes: 424
From: GA, USA
Semantics but was it the spin characteristics or how it spun?
The yoke rod would get stuck in the panel in the full aft position thus not allowing for recovery.
Fatalities included flight instructors, examiners as spins are required in the USA for flight instructor training/examining.
Joined: Dec 2001
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 3,766
Likes: 424
From: GA, USA
In the mean time it's been discussed here before
http://www.pprune.org/archive/index.php/t-309978.html
The issue is mentioned here:
Piper Service Bulletin 661, entitled "Control Column Installation Modification", was issued on August 22, 1979. The purpose for issuance of Piper Service Bulletin 661 was reported as, "It has been reported that roughness or binding of the control shaft in the instrument panel cutout hole can occur when the control wheel is full aft and direct forward or upward-and-forward pressure, rather than linear pressure along the control shaft, is applied. This Service Release contains instructions for the modification of the control wheel shaft bushing assembly to provide a smoother forward movement of the control shaft from a fully aft and up position." A copy of Piper Service Bulletin 661 is attached to this factual report.
Piper Service Bulletin 800, entitled "Elevator Control Travel Modification", was issued on November 19, 1984. The purpose for issuance of Piper Service Bulletin 800 was reported as, "It has been reported that when either control wheel is full aft and an upward-and-forward pressure is applied, the potential exists that the pilot may be unable to move the control yoke out of the full aft position. This Service Bulletin provides instructions to modify the elevator up travel to alleviate the above described problem."
Piper Service Bulletin 800, entitled "Elevator Control Travel Modification", was issued on November 19, 1984. The purpose for issuance of Piper Service Bulletin 800 was reported as, "It has been reported that when either control wheel is full aft and an upward-and-forward pressure is applied, the potential exists that the pilot may be unable to move the control yoke out of the full aft position. This Service Bulletin provides instructions to modify the elevator up travel to alleviate the above described problem."
I'll look for more.
