JAR PPL out of date
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JAR PPL out of date
This may sound like a stupid fault on my part...but I am halfway through my SEP renewal and for some reason I totally ignored/didn't realise my JAR PPL needed to be renewed Sept 16. What does this mean for my flying, are my hours towards my SEP renewal now invalid? Will I be able to get my SEP renewal hours and then convert to an ERSA? Help please!!!
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16 September last.... hmmmm
Therefore it's a renewal required rather than Revalidation which is 'assessment and training through an ATO then an LPC with an examiner. Your flying hours are therefore not relevant. Once that LPC is complete, all the paperwork can be sent together to renew the SEP and convert the licence to an EASA one.
However, this is a quote from the UKGA website referring to the recent prosecution of Mr Hart....
Bit harsh for genuine '****, I forgot...sorry!' cases..... or is it?
Therefore it's a renewal required rather than Revalidation which is 'assessment and training through an ATO then an LPC with an examiner. Your flying hours are therefore not relevant. Once that LPC is complete, all the paperwork can be sent together to renew the SEP and convert the licence to an EASA one.
However, this is a quote from the UKGA website referring to the recent prosecution of Mr Hart....
Commenting after the hearing, Tony Rapson, Head of the CAA’s General Aviation Unit, said: “It should be self-evident that anyone flying an aircraft needs to be appropriately licensed for the type of activity they are engaged in. Unfortunately, a small number of people still think that the rules don’t apply to them and they can carry on regardless, despite the obvious risk to other airspace users and the general public. We will always take action against such people.”
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No, you're missing the point. Remember, your licence is completely independent of the ratings on it.
Until the early 2000's the U.K. CAA Issued licences that were valid for the holders life. Then JAA came along and licences were now only valid for 5 years. That changed back to lifetime validity with the introduction of EASA in 2012. During the change to EASA, JAA licences were "deemed to be" EASA licences until they expired at the end of their 5 year validity. An expired licence cannot be 'deemed to be' anything and that is where (I think) you are now.
Attached to ANY licence is a rating to fly an aircraft...(SEP, SET, MEP or type) which also has a period of validity. If the rating expires but the licence is valid you can't fly. If the licence has expired but the rating is current you still can't fly.... if you have a valid SEP but your instrument or IMC rating has expired you can fly the aircraft, but not under IFR.
If the licence and rating are both valid but your medical isn't current then you cannot exercise the privileges of your licence.
Now, as an aside, if any rating is still valid and you wish to extend the period of validity - that is called Revalidation and, under EASA, there is no training requirement - you can either meet the Revalidation criteria (12 hours etc...) or you can elect to revalidate by LPC with an examiner. If it has passed the validity period (expired) then there is a requirement to undergo Assessment / trainingand to be signed off by an ATO before LPC by examiner, in this instance it matters not whether you've flown 1.2, 12, 120 or 1200 hours during the validity period.
Until the early 2000's the U.K. CAA Issued licences that were valid for the holders life. Then JAA came along and licences were now only valid for 5 years. That changed back to lifetime validity with the introduction of EASA in 2012. During the change to EASA, JAA licences were "deemed to be" EASA licences until they expired at the end of their 5 year validity. An expired licence cannot be 'deemed to be' anything and that is where (I think) you are now.
Attached to ANY licence is a rating to fly an aircraft...(SEP, SET, MEP or type) which also has a period of validity. If the rating expires but the licence is valid you can't fly. If the licence has expired but the rating is current you still can't fly.... if you have a valid SEP but your instrument or IMC rating has expired you can fly the aircraft, but not under IFR.
If the licence and rating are both valid but your medical isn't current then you cannot exercise the privileges of your licence.
Now, as an aside, if any rating is still valid and you wish to extend the period of validity - that is called Revalidation and, under EASA, there is no training requirement - you can either meet the Revalidation criteria (12 hours etc...) or you can elect to revalidate by LPC with an examiner. If it has passed the validity period (expired) then there is a requirement to undergo Assessment / trainingand to be signed off by an ATO before LPC by examiner, in this instance it matters not whether you've flown 1.2, 12, 120 or 1200 hours during the validity period.
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I have been in a very similar situation.
My JAA license expired in September 2014 (as I'd also totally forgotten the 5 years expiry date), and I discovered this in August 2015 when preparing for my revalidation through experience.
So situation was: License itself expired, SEP rating current.
When I fessed up to one of the instructors at the flying club, his immediate comment was along the lines of "Well OK, at least you haven't crashed anything".
I filled out the necessary form to renew my license and took everything down to the CAA office at Gatwick the next day and explained the situation. They were actually very helpful - but one thing that they made very clear, and took a copy of the relevant page of my logbook, was that I could not act as PIC during the period that my license wasn't valid. I could log the dual time, but none of the command time.
A somewhat amusing aside from this tale is that the one thing that caused the CAA a degree of bureaucratic angst - and delayed them issuing a new license for 24 hours - was that nowhere had a box been ticked to say that I could speak English as a native speaker. Despite the fact that I was clearly having a fully fledged conversation with them, I had to go back to Redhill armed with a piece of paper to get a CFI to sign it to say that I can indeed speak English.
Fly for a year without a license? No problem sir. Box not ticked to say you can speak English? Major issue, please fix at once
My JAA license expired in September 2014 (as I'd also totally forgotten the 5 years expiry date), and I discovered this in August 2015 when preparing for my revalidation through experience.
So situation was: License itself expired, SEP rating current.
When I fessed up to one of the instructors at the flying club, his immediate comment was along the lines of "Well OK, at least you haven't crashed anything".
I filled out the necessary form to renew my license and took everything down to the CAA office at Gatwick the next day and explained the situation. They were actually very helpful - but one thing that they made very clear, and took a copy of the relevant page of my logbook, was that I could not act as PIC during the period that my license wasn't valid. I could log the dual time, but none of the command time.
A somewhat amusing aside from this tale is that the one thing that caused the CAA a degree of bureaucratic angst - and delayed them issuing a new license for 24 hours - was that nowhere had a box been ticked to say that I could speak English as a native speaker. Despite the fact that I was clearly having a fully fledged conversation with them, I had to go back to Redhill armed with a piece of paper to get a CFI to sign it to say that I can indeed speak English.
Fly for a year without a license? No problem sir. Box not ticked to say you can speak English? Major issue, please fix at once
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You need to speak to your CFI.
If you had currency on your SEP, then you could simply go on the CAA website, download and complete SRG 1119C and SRG 1107.
Copy of your medical, copy of your passport, CFI signatures all around and circa £70 for admin fees. About 6 weeks to process and no P1 flying in that time allowed.
But with no currency on your SEP, your new shiny license could come back without the SEP on it, leaving you no further forward and the need to reapply again to get the SEP added once completed.
So you have to talk with your CFI about the right running order of things. He may allow you to finish your SEP renewal and then complete the process.
Not that any of this happened to me of course
If you had currency on your SEP, then you could simply go on the CAA website, download and complete SRG 1119C and SRG 1107.
Copy of your medical, copy of your passport, CFI signatures all around and circa £70 for admin fees. About 6 weeks to process and no P1 flying in that time allowed.
But with no currency on your SEP, your new shiny license could come back without the SEP on it, leaving you no further forward and the need to reapply again to get the SEP added once completed.
So you have to talk with your CFI about the right running order of things. He may allow you to finish your SEP renewal and then complete the process.
Not that any of this happened to me of course
Its nothing to do with currency, its validity that counts. If your SEP is valid just apply for the new license. If your SEP has expired, then you need to go through the renewal process before you apply, unless you want to receive two bills, one to have the licence reissued and another to have the rating added to it. If you revalidated the SEP whilst the licence was out of date, then the Examiner who signed, it has failed to do his job correctly and left you requiring a renewal.
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convert the licence to an EASA one.
My JAA->EASA conversion was triggered by passing my IMC rating and wanting this added to my license. In my case it also triggered:
- A change-of-state-of-registry of my medical from the Dutch to the UK authorities (SOLI request) - this also required translations of certain bits of text that the doctor wrote down years ago.
- Addition of a (grandfathered) aerobatics rating (easy thanks to me having participated in a sanctioned BAeA event, fortunately).
- A huge hassle over my LPE. (I had done an actual LPE oral exam and the result of that (LPE-6) was added to my JAR PPL. However, the UK CAA did not want to accept an LPE-6 written on my JAR PPL as sufficient proof of speaking English, to issue me an EASA PPL.)
All-in-all, getting everything sorted took NINE MONTHS. In the end, the mass of paperwork that got sent to the CAA was almost a centimeter thick. (And I'm not done yet. I also hold a Dutch-issued Glider Pilots License and at some point in time that's got to move to the UK CAA as well. That date however is being pushed back over and over again.)
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A somewhat amusing aside from this tale is that the one thing that caused the CAA a degree of bureaucratic angst - and delayed them issuing a new license for 24 hours - was that nowhere had a box been ticked to say that I could speak English as a native speaker. Despite the fact that I was clearly having a fully fledged conversation with them, I had to go back to Redhill armed with a piece of paper to get a CFI to sign it to say that I can indeed speak English.
I turned up there and the official gave me a Temporary Airman's Certificate duly endorsed as:
"English ProficiAnt" (My emphasis)
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Hi guys, I have read this thread as I am in a position whereby I would like to start flying light aircraft again. It is 11 years since I have been at the controls of one and have held SEP/MEP/IR/IMC/Night ratings. Now as I understand it, my SEP will have expired, I have a current EASA licence. Not spoken to a CFI yet but I guess I will need to 'retrain' and take a skills test to get it back on the licence. Sound correct?
Cheers
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If you have an EASA licence it will either show the validity date of your SEP (if it was valid when you applied) or it will show the rating as lapsed by being on the back of the licence.
Not called a skill test but an LPC. With a ten year gap the majority of HOTs will want some refresher training before you are recommended for the LPC.
If you have an EASA licence it will either show the validity date of your SEP (if it was valid when you applied) or it will show the rating as lapsed by being on the back of the licence.
Not called a skill test but an LPC. With a ten year gap the majority of HOTs will want some refresher training before you are recommended for the LPC.
