8,33 KHz proliferation

[Jan Olieslagers]

More and more 8,33 KHz frequencies are being used. Here's a little list of what I'm aware of, the list is bound to extend rapidly. 25 KHz only radio's will soon be limited to circling the village spire - which can be done with no radio at all in most places...
120,335 LKLT LETNANY INFO123,980 LKLT LETNANY HANDLING
122,205 LKCB Cheb
123,610 LKMB Mlada Boleslav
122,830 EDVP Peine glider field
131,005 EHEH Eindhoven tower
121,930 EHEH Eindhoven ground

and, like as not, many more...

[patowalker]

As you say, many more, especially in CZ.

http://lis.rlp.cz/ais_data/aic/data/a_2015-008.pdf

[Forfoxake]

Cumbernauld (EGPG) has been 120.605 for sometime now but you can still transmit and receive on 120.60.

[BackPacker]

Originally Posted by Forfoxake

Cumbernauld (EGPG) has been 120.605 for sometime now but you can still transmit and receive on 120.60.

...but then you are interfering with 120.590 and 120.610.

In all fairness, those frequencies are probably not in use yet. But you have no idea if and when they will be. So not good practice to mix 25 kHz and 8.33 kHz frequencies. And most likely illegal anyway.

BTW All controlled frequencies (Mil and Civil) in the Netherlands have been converted to 8.33 kHz already. The only exceptions, for now, are the Amsterdam INFO (124.3) and Dutch Mil INFO (132.35) frequencies. Also, the uncontrolled fields in NL have not yet switched to 8.33. But they will switch soon as the deadline is approaching.

[chevvron]

Originally Posted by BackPacker

...but then you are interfering with 120.590 and 120.610.

The people who allocate frequencies aren't stupid. They wouldn't allocate the other two frequencies close enough for interference to occur.

[BackPacker]

They wouldn't allocate the other two frequencies close enough for interference to ccur.

Actually that's the whole point of the 8.33 kHz transition. There is (allegedly) a shortage of frequencies at the moment. By reducing the spacing from 25 kHz to 8.33 kHz we triple the amount of frequencies available.

So pretty soon after the 8.33 kHz transition is complete, you'll see frequencies being allocated that are only 8.33 kHz apart, and whose DOC is close enough to cause interference if you still use them as if they're 25 kHz frequencies.

[chevvron]

Originally Posted by BackPacker

Actually that's the whole point of the 8.33 kHz transition. There is (allegedly) a shortage of frequencies at the moment. By reducing the spacing from 25 kHz to 8.33 kHz we triple the amount of frequencies available.

So pretty soon after the 8.33 kHz transition is complete, you'll see frequencies being allocated that are only 8.33 kHz apart, and whose DOC is close enough to cause interference if you still use them as if they're 25 kHz frequencies.

So it's amazing how the USA can operate without 8.33 frequencies.

[Forfoxake]

BackPacker wrote:

"...but then you are interfering with 120.590 and 120.610.

In all fairness, those frequencies are probably not in use yet. But you have no idea if and when they will be. So not good practice to mix 25 kHz and 8.33 kHz frequencies. And most likely illegal anyway."

I understand the point about the interference (and have an 8.33kHz handheld anyway) but almost certain that the adjacent frequencies are not allocated in the UK because the law does not change until next year. From the CAA website:

"On 1 January 2018 the law changes and all aircraft operating in airspace that requires the carriage of a radio must have 8.33 kHz-compatible equipment fitted and operational. After this date all 25kHz radios can no longer be used, unless specifically exempted for a particular channel such as the emergency frequency 121.5MHz. This means that all General Aviation (GA) aircraft must comply with this change to UK law to maintain safe communications with ground stations.
The UK leaving the EU will not affect the implementation of this new legislation."

[biscuit74]

Originally Posted by chevvron

So it's amazing how the USA can operate without 8.33 frequencies.

Yes, I agree.
I suspect there is a great deal of laziness involved in this, plus a desire not to rattle national cages to get reassignments agreed.

With a bit of care and thought, I bet we could get good spread using 25khz spacings. An expensive solution to a probably non-existent problem

Is there any truth in the story that Norway has said no and that France has suggested a delay while this is all rethought?

Biscuit

[chevvron]

Originally Posted by biscuit74

Yes, I agree.
I suspect there is a great deal of laziness involved in this, plus a desire not to rattle national cages to get reassignments agreed.

With a bit of care and thought, I bet we could get good spread using 25khz spacings. An expensive solution to a probably non-existent problem

Is there any truth in the story that Norway has said no and that France has suggested a delay while this is all rethought?

Biscuit

My first Icom, an ICA2 bought back in 1986 to use in my Moni, had 12.5khz spacing programmed into it. Perhaps Icom were just speculating this would be used, or was it?