Starting Out - Advice
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,546
Likes: 2
From: Oxford, UK
At Shenington this week....a small gliding club....
Monday and Tuesday provided good soaring weather. Alan L. did 360 k, Steve T. managed 500 k, and GP flew 660 k. Visitors from the Oxford Club also achieved great distances, David managed 365.7 on Monday and 302.4 on Tuesday.
No doubt the larger clubs, eg. Dunstable (London), Lasham, Husbands Bosworth did even better.
In the United States, alas, the gliding scene is pretty much as described by some of the disgruntled posters above. Americans find it much more difficult to cooperate in a club environment.
I am no longer young enough or fit enough to fly solo, instruct, tug, or even to attach a winch cable to the belly hook of a glider, but I spent this morning helping out at the launchpoint, there were no thermals, but a good training day, and a lad of 15 did three solos, after a series of practice launch failures.
And on my flight, for the first time I didn't bother to wear a parachute! alas, it didn't make it any easier to struggle out of the seat after landing.
No doubt the larger clubs, eg. Dunstable (London), Lasham, Husbands Bosworth did even better.
In the United States, alas, the gliding scene is pretty much as described by some of the disgruntled posters above. Americans find it much more difficult to cooperate in a club environment.
I am no longer young enough or fit enough to fly solo, instruct, tug, or even to attach a winch cable to the belly hook of a glider, but I spent this morning helping out at the launchpoint, there were no thermals, but a good training day, and a lad of 15 did three solos, after a series of practice launch failures.
And on my flight, for the first time I didn't bother to wear a parachute! alas, it didn't make it any easier to struggle out of the seat after landing.
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 365
Likes: 0
From: LONDON
Urgh how boring! That's not flying, that's driving a bus, and I'd query your assertion that it's what the majority want to do.
I'd query your assertion the majority don't........
https://www.caa.co.uk/uploadedFiles/...sex%202015.pdf
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,280
Likes: 66
From: Chedburgh, Bury St.Edmunds
Buttonpusher. Hi. I remember that Booker turbulence well, having learn't there much the same time as you!. Stopped at about 200 hours [being a bit selfish family wise!].
To the original poster. Eat, sleep, dream, study flying. When wife or partner etc., goes to bed, sit in the armchhair, practise check lists, fly imaginary circuits, emergencies etc. Totally absorb yourself into this different dimension. It sure makes car driving very ordinary. I remember once doing a radar approach into Luton in solid cloud with an instructor [yes, in a 172... you could do that in those days!] and an hour later, was buying potatoes in High Wycombe market. Two completely different worlds in an hour. ENJOY!!!.
To the original poster. Eat, sleep, dream, study flying. When wife or partner etc., goes to bed, sit in the armchhair, practise check lists, fly imaginary circuits, emergencies etc. Totally absorb yourself into this different dimension. It sure makes car driving very ordinary. I remember once doing a radar approach into Luton in solid cloud with an instructor [yes, in a 172... you could do that in those days!] and an hour later, was buying potatoes in High Wycombe market. Two completely different worlds in an hour. ENJOY!!!.
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 639
Likes: 4
From: Mare Imbrium
I'd query your assertion the majority don't........
https://www.caa.co.uk/uploadedFiles/...sex%202015.pdf
https://www.caa.co.uk/uploadedFiles/...sex%202015.pdf
It only lists medical certificate holders, missing out all the self declaration medical pilots on the nppl.
It also doesn't tell you what type of flying they do. Aeros? Further training? Vintage aircraft? Self build?
And since you don't need a licence at all to fly gliders in the UK the data doesn't show most glider pilots (or similarly paramotor pilots).
The leisure flying community is far more varied and interesting than you're suggesting.
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 15
Likes: 0
From: England
Buttonpusher. Hi. I remember that Booker turbulence well, having learn't there much the same time as you!. Stopped at about 200 hours [being a bit selfish family wise!].
To the original poster. Eat, sleep, dream, study flying. When wife or partner etc., goes to bed, sit in the armchhair, practise check lists, fly imaginary circuits, emergencies etc. Totally absorb yourself into this different dimension. It sure makes car driving very ordinary. I remember once doing a radar approach into Luton in solid cloud with an instructor [yes, in a 172... you could do that in those days!] and an hour later, was buying potatoes in High Wycombe market. Two completely different worlds in an hour. ENJOY!!!.
To the original poster. Eat, sleep, dream, study flying. When wife or partner etc., goes to bed, sit in the armchhair, practise check lists, fly imaginary circuits, emergencies etc. Totally absorb yourself into this different dimension. It sure makes car driving very ordinary. I remember once doing a radar approach into Luton in solid cloud with an instructor [yes, in a 172... you could do that in those days!] and an hour later, was buying potatoes in High Wycombe market. Two completely different worlds in an hour. ENJOY!!!.
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 565
Likes: 0
From: N/A
james grainge.
In the days, long - long ago, when you could walk onto the concourse of a passenger airline terminal without a ticket, and a long time before there was security.
I was walking around the airport, just looking at planes.
I remember thinking to myself as an passenger airline Boeing 727 crew disembarked, how much I'd like to do that for a living.
Then I looked up to the other side of the airport, and saw the Boeing 727 that I was Captain on, and realized that in fact, that's what I did do for a living.
The passion has never died. From day one to today. It's the only thing I've ever wanted to do.
As an aircraft spotter in the UK in the 70s. I used to go cycling around airports and airshows with a Jamie. I thought the last name was Grainge, or something like that.
I was told he had also done it, and was flying HS125s, 25 years ago.
Wouldn't by any chance be you would it?
In the days, long - long ago, when you could walk onto the concourse of a passenger airline terminal without a ticket, and a long time before there was security.
I was walking around the airport, just looking at planes.
I remember thinking to myself as an passenger airline Boeing 727 crew disembarked, how much I'd like to do that for a living.
Then I looked up to the other side of the airport, and saw the Boeing 727 that I was Captain on, and realized that in fact, that's what I did do for a living.
The passion has never died. From day one to today. It's the only thing I've ever wanted to do.
As an aircraft spotter in the UK in the 70s. I used to go cycling around airports and airshows with a Jamie. I thought the last name was Grainge, or something like that.
I was told he had also done it, and was flying HS125s, 25 years ago.
Wouldn't by any chance be you would it?
Last edited by button push ignored; 22nd April 2017 at 19:00.
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 365
Likes: 0
From: LONDON
The leisure flying community is far more varied and interesting than you're suggesting.
The OP asked about training for an EASA PPL and then was advised to take up gliding because apparently all powered flying instruction isn't conducted properly and inferior to gliding skills.
To add insult you consider powered flying is akin to "driving a bus". Like the same A320 Bus's that take you to Benidorm.
If I asked where to learn how to get a M/C licence I presume you would think I should buy a push-bike as it is a far superior skill set I would get, and a much more interesting and varied thing to do on two wheels.
Thats my lot with this well drifted thread..
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 639
Likes: 4
From: Mare Imbrium
Don't recall that suggestion
The OP asked about training for an EASA PPL and then was advised to take up gliding because apparently all powered flying instruction isn't conducted properly and inferior to gliding skills.
To add insult you consider powered flying is akin to "driving a bus". Like the same A320 Bus's that take you to Benidorm..
The OP asked about training for an EASA PPL and then was advised to take up gliding because apparently all powered flying instruction isn't conducted properly and inferior to gliding skills.
To add insult you consider powered flying is akin to "driving a bus". Like the same A320 Bus's that take you to Benidorm..
I get disappointed by people who undersell flying in all its forms, which is how your posts read to me.
And it's buses, not Bus's. Are you a greengrocer?
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 15
Likes: 0
From: England
james grainge.
In the days, long - long ago, when you could walk onto the concourse of a passenger airline terminal without a ticket, and a long time before there was security.
I was walking around the airport, just looking at planes.
I remember thinking to myself as an passenger airline Boeing 727 crew disembarked, how much I'd like to do that for a living.
Then I looked up to the other side of the airport, and saw the Boeing 727 that I was Captain on, and realized that in fact, that's what I did do for a living.
The passion has never died. From day one to today. It's the only thing I've ever wanted to do.
As an aircraft spotter in the UK in the 70s. I used to go cycling around airports and airshows with a Jamie. I thought the last name was Grainge, or something like that.
I was told he had also done it, and was flying HS125s, 25 years ago.
Wouldn't by any chance be you would it?
In the days, long - long ago, when you could walk onto the concourse of a passenger airline terminal without a ticket, and a long time before there was security.
I was walking around the airport, just looking at planes.
I remember thinking to myself as an passenger airline Boeing 727 crew disembarked, how much I'd like to do that for a living.
Then I looked up to the other side of the airport, and saw the Boeing 727 that I was Captain on, and realized that in fact, that's what I did do for a living.
The passion has never died. From day one to today. It's the only thing I've ever wanted to do.
As an aircraft spotter in the UK in the 70s. I used to go cycling around airports and airshows with a Jamie. I thought the last name was Grainge, or something like that.
I was told he had also done it, and was flying HS125s, 25 years ago.
Wouldn't by any chance be you would it?
Sadly a lot of advice to the wannabes on the forum is derived from some very jaded pilots, as well as some who are simply the best pilots in the world and forget what it is like to be a poor youngster with a dream. Which is sad to see. Best advice I can give anyone starting out with this forum, take things with a bit of salt, and do research from independent sources.
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,546
Likes: 2
From: Oxford, UK
Power flying is very expensive
The original poster of this thread was being advised not to pay for an entire course up front because flying schools can close down, and often do.
And he was advised to get his aviation medical up front just in case there was any problem with his health, before he had spent his money on flying lessons.
Excellent advice. And PA28181 of London who has experienced glider flying, and didn't enjoy it, commented that "gliders don't go anywhere except around in circles" and "you can stand around all day freezing". I think the flights I have mentioned that took place at Shenington on Monday and Tuesday, of more than 600 k, would indicate that gliders certainly do go places, if you are good enough.
James Grainge on post 31 asks "do glider hours count toward the PPL"?
They used to, in the UK, when I got my PPL I had a Silver C cross country in gliding, that's 50 k, and only needed a few hours of power training, so saved a lot of ££ doing it that way. I am not sure what the regulations are these days....
In the US of A, glider hours DO NOT COUNT! Or they didn't when I presented them as part of my UK PPL to the GADO in Orlando....fortunately the official kindly gave me an American license anyway, and I did the IR in Texas. The only thing in flying power that gave me a problem was RT.
And he was advised to get his aviation medical up front just in case there was any problem with his health, before he had spent his money on flying lessons.
Excellent advice. And PA28181 of London who has experienced glider flying, and didn't enjoy it, commented that "gliders don't go anywhere except around in circles" and "you can stand around all day freezing". I think the flights I have mentioned that took place at Shenington on Monday and Tuesday, of more than 600 k, would indicate that gliders certainly do go places, if you are good enough.
James Grainge on post 31 asks "do glider hours count toward the PPL"?
They used to, in the UK, when I got my PPL I had a Silver C cross country in gliding, that's 50 k, and only needed a few hours of power training, so saved a lot of ££ doing it that way. I am not sure what the regulations are these days....
In the US of A, glider hours DO NOT COUNT! Or they didn't when I presented them as part of my UK PPL to the GADO in Orlando....fortunately the official kindly gave me an American license anyway, and I did the IR in Texas. The only thing in flying power that gave me a problem was RT.
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,434
Likes: 0
From: Scotland
Mary
I don't think the phrase "gliders don't go anywhere" was meant to mean a lack of duration or range.
Gliders can and have travelled vast distances and remained airborne longer than powered aircraft. Yes.
But and this is the big But, you cannot climb into a glider and take off, set course in a direction chosen three days ago, fly to a pre-planned destination 300 nm away, land, do whatever you wish for two days and fly home at your convenience.
Your 600k distance depends on where the lift is, where and what the weather is doing.
I don't recall many gliders departing Portmoak for a fly out to Eshott or Fishburn or Carlisle for a day trip.
So let's get the distance thing into perspective ref: "don't go anywhere".
Gliding will teach you stick and rudder skills because to stay airborne as long as possible without power you need to fly the aircraft accurately, "ball in the middle etc" and it is a good thing to learn those skills for fuel saving if nothing else.
During a PFL once, I turned into a hill and after a bit of "rock polishing" in a Cessna 152 to plus 100ft I was rewarded with " bloody glider pilots!" But I still couldn't "go anywhere" except to a better choice of field and then only because the hill happened to be there.
Gliding is a way of life, a dedication, team sport, and requires a minimum of winch/tug driver, hooker up, wing tip runner/signaller to get one pilot airborne.
I can drive to my a/c, pull it out, kick the tyres, push the button and go, severely frowned upon activity at a gliding club.
Rant mode off.
I don't think the phrase "gliders don't go anywhere" was meant to mean a lack of duration or range.
Gliders can and have travelled vast distances and remained airborne longer than powered aircraft. Yes.
But and this is the big But, you cannot climb into a glider and take off, set course in a direction chosen three days ago, fly to a pre-planned destination 300 nm away, land, do whatever you wish for two days and fly home at your convenience.
Your 600k distance depends on where the lift is, where and what the weather is doing.
I don't recall many gliders departing Portmoak for a fly out to Eshott or Fishburn or Carlisle for a day trip.
So let's get the distance thing into perspective ref: "don't go anywhere".
Gliding will teach you stick and rudder skills because to stay airborne as long as possible without power you need to fly the aircraft accurately, "ball in the middle etc" and it is a good thing to learn those skills for fuel saving if nothing else.
During a PFL once, I turned into a hill and after a bit of "rock polishing" in a Cessna 152 to plus 100ft I was rewarded with " bloody glider pilots!" But I still couldn't "go anywhere" except to a better choice of field and then only because the hill happened to be there.
Gliding is a way of life, a dedication, team sport, and requires a minimum of winch/tug driver, hooker up, wing tip runner/signaller to get one pilot airborne.
I can drive to my a/c, pull it out, kick the tyres, push the button and go, severely frowned upon activity at a gliding club.
Rant mode off.
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,546
Likes: 2
From: Oxford, UK
Sensible limits, please!
Crash one, I bet you never did, actually (crash one, that is). You read like an experienced and sensible power pilot.
But to suggest that a PPL with limited experience and hours can jump in his a/c, kick the tyres, push the button, and go.....good grief! Did he check the weather, that guy? has he planned his route? has he filed a flight plan? if not his a/c, has it recently come out of a mechanic's tender care (in that case, defintely beware!) Like me, you are retired, own (I used to) your own baby, and look after it with loving attention. And know its every feature, quirk, panel, limitations, etc etc.
How many PPL with low hours simply can't wait to load up the wife, the kids, or the girlfriend and impress them with his skill as a pilot - when he has less than 500 hours, would you trust the newby with your wife and kids? If he is flying his own light aircraft for business, can he resist the pressure of business though the forecast is crap?
You don't have to look far in the reports to find examples.
But to suggest that a PPL with limited experience and hours can jump in his a/c, kick the tyres, push the button, and go.....good grief! Did he check the weather, that guy? has he planned his route? has he filed a flight plan? if not his a/c, has it recently come out of a mechanic's tender care (in that case, defintely beware!) Like me, you are retired, own (I used to) your own baby, and look after it with loving attention. And know its every feature, quirk, panel, limitations, etc etc.
How many PPL with low hours simply can't wait to load up the wife, the kids, or the girlfriend and impress them with his skill as a pilot - when he has less than 500 hours, would you trust the newby with your wife and kids? If he is flying his own light aircraft for business, can he resist the pressure of business though the forecast is crap?
You don't have to look far in the reports to find examples.
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,434
Likes: 0
From: Scotland
I wouldn't dare suggest that a newbie PPL should do as I can do, being a public forum it may be dangerous to even mention such activity.
How many newbie pilots have crashed into their girlfriends garden whilst showing off?
So for the benefit of the newbie, I am in my house, I have checked the weather, clear sunshine, little wind, TAFs and Metars locally and as far as I need to, Notams noted as required, self propelled maintenance up to scratch, the fuel was topped off last weekend, the aircraft is alone in the hangar, doors locked, unless some !!!! has broken in, in which case that will be addressed in due course, a pre-flight inspection will be performed anyway.
A line will be drawn/plotted on Runway HD if the intended route is outside my 60nm radius. PPR will be obtained if necessary, etc etc. Good enough?
Actually "Crash one" was a call sign I was once required to use ref: those big red vehicles seen on airfields, I hope you never have dealings with them!
How many newbie pilots have crashed into their girlfriends garden whilst showing off?
So for the benefit of the newbie, I am in my house, I have checked the weather, clear sunshine, little wind, TAFs and Metars locally and as far as I need to, Notams noted as required, self propelled maintenance up to scratch, the fuel was topped off last weekend, the aircraft is alone in the hangar, doors locked, unless some !!!! has broken in, in which case that will be addressed in due course, a pre-flight inspection will be performed anyway.
A line will be drawn/plotted on Runway HD if the intended route is outside my 60nm radius. PPR will be obtained if necessary, etc etc. Good enough?
Actually "Crash one" was a call sign I was once required to use ref: those big red vehicles seen on airfields, I hope you never have dealings with them!
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 565
Likes: 0
From: N/A
It took me about nine months to get my PPL at Booker in the 1970s. I then spent another nine months building flight time, with who ever I could get to come along with me to share the cost.
I was an aircraft mechanic at a UK National Airline. One of the fellow mechanics owned a very old, and very tatty, razor back, straight tailed Cessna 150 that he kept at Opa Loka, near Miami. He would rent it out to mechanics by the tach time, for less than ten quid an hour dry.
It took me 18 months in the UK to gain 125 hours. In two blocks of two week vacations to the US, I had another 90 hours.
I also had the best time of my entire life. The plane was the biggest worn out piece of junk, I've ever been in. But armed with five gallon gas cans of petrol, and gallon jugs of SAE30 oil and pints of STP, I limped all over the Southern States, and had an adventure of a life time.
Back then, a UK CPL was 700 hours if you did not go the top schools at Kidlington or Hamble. Whilst you could flight instruct with a Private. I saw many people waste the best years of their life looking up at 300' overcast. I remember listening in on conversations where the instructor bosted that he had 3.1 hours that week. I thought I would NEVER make it, and had to make bold plans.
When in America I met 18 year old kids with 500 hours of multi-engine time. Daddy owned a Baron. But they were all really nice, not snotty in any way.
One day I was walking to my heap, and as I walked past a flight instructor doing a pre-flight I stopped to say hello. We talked for half and hour about British music, and he invited me to come back to the airport, and we'd go see a rock band that night, and I'd carry on the next day.
We've been friends to this day. He was able to get me an interview at his airline some eight years later, which lead to my eventual success.
Just yesterday we were joking just how lucky we were.
He's #50 and I'm #80 something, out of thousands at one of the world finest companies.
The whole point of this (and there is one):
I firmly believe that all careers and flying hobbies should start in The United States with a junky primary trainer. I feel sorry for all the people who are trying to make decisions for themselves or their children based on what schools are telling them. There is far too much pressure put on people with all the pilot selection, aptitude tests, loan applications, sponsorship, scholarships, cadet programs, and airline affiliation and placement. People are signing up for Airbus A-320 type rating before they have ever flown a plane. Before their first solo, their conversation turns to EasyJet Vs RyanAir. It's not right, in fact it's sick. They think nothing of 100,000+ in debt.
All for what? A job that pays 20 - 30K a year, and has a training contract tied to it?
I would recommend anyone go get a FAA PPL and gain 150-200 hours flight time in the US as cheaply as possible. Do not fall for the American hype, either. It's just as thick over here as it is over there. You don't need or want anything more than a county airport and a flight instructor. It's a big country. Try lots of places, to build time. 25 hours and move on somewhere else. It's flying planes, not brain surgery.
You will also need 100 hours PIC and 5 hours night and a 300 nm (540km) cross-country to progress to a EASA (f) ATPL course.
I've tried voicing my opinion of the wannabee flight training section of this web site.
But people thought I was too controversial, and my views too radical.
I was shouted down, by people with ulterior motives.
Who would have thought that you could learn how to fly in a Piper Cub, or a Tiger Moth.
Certainly Flying Fortress, or Lancaster crews couldn't possible learn on something so beneath them.
I was an aircraft mechanic at a UK National Airline. One of the fellow mechanics owned a very old, and very tatty, razor back, straight tailed Cessna 150 that he kept at Opa Loka, near Miami. He would rent it out to mechanics by the tach time, for less than ten quid an hour dry.
It took me 18 months in the UK to gain 125 hours. In two blocks of two week vacations to the US, I had another 90 hours.
I also had the best time of my entire life. The plane was the biggest worn out piece of junk, I've ever been in. But armed with five gallon gas cans of petrol, and gallon jugs of SAE30 oil and pints of STP, I limped all over the Southern States, and had an adventure of a life time.
Back then, a UK CPL was 700 hours if you did not go the top schools at Kidlington or Hamble. Whilst you could flight instruct with a Private. I saw many people waste the best years of their life looking up at 300' overcast. I remember listening in on conversations where the instructor bosted that he had 3.1 hours that week. I thought I would NEVER make it, and had to make bold plans.
When in America I met 18 year old kids with 500 hours of multi-engine time. Daddy owned a Baron. But they were all really nice, not snotty in any way.
One day I was walking to my heap, and as I walked past a flight instructor doing a pre-flight I stopped to say hello. We talked for half and hour about British music, and he invited me to come back to the airport, and we'd go see a rock band that night, and I'd carry on the next day.
We've been friends to this day. He was able to get me an interview at his airline some eight years later, which lead to my eventual success.
Just yesterday we were joking just how lucky we were.
He's #50 and I'm #80 something, out of thousands at one of the world finest companies.
The whole point of this (and there is one):
I firmly believe that all careers and flying hobbies should start in The United States with a junky primary trainer. I feel sorry for all the people who are trying to make decisions for themselves or their children based on what schools are telling them. There is far too much pressure put on people with all the pilot selection, aptitude tests, loan applications, sponsorship, scholarships, cadet programs, and airline affiliation and placement. People are signing up for Airbus A-320 type rating before they have ever flown a plane. Before their first solo, their conversation turns to EasyJet Vs RyanAir. It's not right, in fact it's sick. They think nothing of 100,000+ in debt.
All for what? A job that pays 20 - 30K a year, and has a training contract tied to it?
I would recommend anyone go get a FAA PPL and gain 150-200 hours flight time in the US as cheaply as possible. Do not fall for the American hype, either. It's just as thick over here as it is over there. You don't need or want anything more than a county airport and a flight instructor. It's a big country. Try lots of places, to build time. 25 hours and move on somewhere else. It's flying planes, not brain surgery.
You will also need 100 hours PIC and 5 hours night and a 300 nm (540km) cross-country to progress to a EASA (f) ATPL course.
I've tried voicing my opinion of the wannabee flight training section of this web site.
But people thought I was too controversial, and my views too radical.
I was shouted down, by people with ulterior motives.
Who would have thought that you could learn how to fly in a Piper Cub, or a Tiger Moth.
Certainly Flying Fortress, or Lancaster crews couldn't possible learn on something so beneath them.
Last edited by button push ignored; 24th April 2017 at 22:45.
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,434
Likes: 0
From: Scotland
Button push'
I would agree with all that. Unfortunately the over regulated, stuffed shirt, head up their ass UK would never recognise any amount of flying, training or not, in Daddies Piper cub. The only thing recognised here is an official training establishment.
I went solo in a T21 glider in 1956. Excercise 14 (first solo, there can only be one of those?) I then went solo in another T21 in 1983, excercise 14 (2)
Next in a Cessna 152 1986, excercise 14 (3). Finally in another 152 in 2006 excercise 14 (4).
You cannot buck the system. Give in, go with the flow, sod them all!
It's less painful than banging your head on the wall.
If I had told an instructor I had done this before, I would be treated as a jumped up know it all.
I tried once, never again!
I would agree with all that. Unfortunately the over regulated, stuffed shirt, head up their ass UK would never recognise any amount of flying, training or not, in Daddies Piper cub. The only thing recognised here is an official training establishment.
I went solo in a T21 glider in 1956. Excercise 14 (first solo, there can only be one of those?) I then went solo in another T21 in 1983, excercise 14 (2)
Next in a Cessna 152 1986, excercise 14 (3). Finally in another 152 in 2006 excercise 14 (4).
You cannot buck the system. Give in, go with the flow, sod them all!
It's less painful than banging your head on the wall.
If I had told an instructor I had done this before, I would be treated as a jumped up know it all.
I tried once, never again!
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 565
Likes: 0
From: N/A
I have read Crash One's comments several times, and I'm not sure I understand exactly what he's saying.
How could anybody not recognize your flying, if you had a selfie on final at every airport you visited.
Heck, buy a Go-Pro and video tape the whole thing.
Flaps 30 speed 75 kts, selfie, landing assured flaps 40, speed 65 kts, selfie.
I looked into my daughter doing an EASA (f) ATPL at one of the many schools in the UK and Europe.
She would have an FAA Comm/Inst/Multi and many hundreds of hours of experience.
But after talking to many nice people and several snotty ones, I finally gave up on the idea.
The straw that broke the camels back was you have to pay for an interview.
That and training contracts, and paying for your own type rating.
I now, think it's best if we build a career for her in the USA.
If you are a UK/EU national, and can not work in the USA, your only option is CAA/EASA.
I was thinking about a better way forward for the working/middle class UK aviation enthusiast like I was 40 years ago, and was trying to offer my advice.
If people want to go to the prestigious schools, that's their prerogative.
But I won't being paying for it, because I don't think it's right.
To either the student, the captain, the airline or the passengers.
That kids with 250 hours get to go right seat of an large airliner.
Doesn't anybody want to fly a turbo-prop anymore as a starter job.
I'd like to put some of these wizz kids in a Jetstream 31 for a few hundred hours, and let it take that smugness off their face.
But are you saying that the UK flight schools will not accept flight time in a basic trainer like a Piper Cub?
Personally I get more out of flying my friends Aeronca Champ that their Cirrus SR-22.
If that's the case, then get a FAA Comm/Inst/Multi, and do a conversion.
They can't turn their snobby nose up at that.
What I was thinking, was sending her to Stapleford Flight Center in North London, because of the free accommodation that was on offer from friends.
They have cheap Cessna 152 as hour building planes available.
Flying in the United States sounds far more productive in my opinion than flying one way to a farmers field, pay a landing fee, get a cup of tea, and flying to home base, like in the UK.
In America we can do touch and goes, at thousands of airports, to our hearts content. All for free.
At 10pm the local control tower closes. They leave the ILS up all night. You control the lighting with your radio.
You can practice ILS, VOR, NDB and GPS approaches all night.
You can also do figure eights, taking off and landing on a variety of runways in every direction.
Last month I did 23 airports in one day.
It helps, when Dad is an A&P Mechanic, and CFI/II/ME and has his own Cessna 172.
I don't care if my kids go fly our plane 1000 hours each.
It's there for their success.
Fortunately the over regulated, stuffed shirt, head up their ass UK, as Crash One so elegantly puts it. Forced me to seek greener pastures.
That, and three million unemployed, three day weeks, IRA attacks, and militant unionism.
And for that, I will forever thank The United States of America.
How could anybody not recognize your flying, if you had a selfie on final at every airport you visited.
Heck, buy a Go-Pro and video tape the whole thing.
Flaps 30 speed 75 kts, selfie, landing assured flaps 40, speed 65 kts, selfie.
I looked into my daughter doing an EASA (f) ATPL at one of the many schools in the UK and Europe.
She would have an FAA Comm/Inst/Multi and many hundreds of hours of experience.
But after talking to many nice people and several snotty ones, I finally gave up on the idea.
The straw that broke the camels back was you have to pay for an interview.
That and training contracts, and paying for your own type rating.
I now, think it's best if we build a career for her in the USA.
If you are a UK/EU national, and can not work in the USA, your only option is CAA/EASA.
I was thinking about a better way forward for the working/middle class UK aviation enthusiast like I was 40 years ago, and was trying to offer my advice.
If people want to go to the prestigious schools, that's their prerogative.
But I won't being paying for it, because I don't think it's right.
To either the student, the captain, the airline or the passengers.
That kids with 250 hours get to go right seat of an large airliner.
Doesn't anybody want to fly a turbo-prop anymore as a starter job.
I'd like to put some of these wizz kids in a Jetstream 31 for a few hundred hours, and let it take that smugness off their face.
But are you saying that the UK flight schools will not accept flight time in a basic trainer like a Piper Cub?
Personally I get more out of flying my friends Aeronca Champ that their Cirrus SR-22.
If that's the case, then get a FAA Comm/Inst/Multi, and do a conversion.
They can't turn their snobby nose up at that.
What I was thinking, was sending her to Stapleford Flight Center in North London, because of the free accommodation that was on offer from friends.
They have cheap Cessna 152 as hour building planes available.
Flying in the United States sounds far more productive in my opinion than flying one way to a farmers field, pay a landing fee, get a cup of tea, and flying to home base, like in the UK.
In America we can do touch and goes, at thousands of airports, to our hearts content. All for free.
At 10pm the local control tower closes. They leave the ILS up all night. You control the lighting with your radio.
You can practice ILS, VOR, NDB and GPS approaches all night.
You can also do figure eights, taking off and landing on a variety of runways in every direction.
Last month I did 23 airports in one day.
It helps, when Dad is an A&P Mechanic, and CFI/II/ME and has his own Cessna 172.
I don't care if my kids go fly our plane 1000 hours each.
It's there for their success.
Fortunately the over regulated, stuffed shirt, head up their ass UK, as Crash One so elegantly puts it. Forced me to seek greener pastures.
That, and three million unemployed, three day weeks, IRA attacks, and militant unionism.
And for that, I will forever thank The United States of America.
Last edited by button push ignored; 24th April 2017 at 18:01.
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,434
Likes: 0
From: Scotland
Sorry I'm not being very clear. Of course Piper cub training is perfectly acceptable in the UK. There are flying schools that teach on them. However if you were to mention at many flying schools that you had XXX hours of flying Piper Cubs with your father, I don't think they would be interested in the fact that you just might be capable of flying one.
Not, I might add that the CAA should be expected to credit that time for the issue of a licence, just that the flying school should respect that you are not a raw, dumb, useless rookie that has never seen an aeroplane before.
When I went to the flying school to begin the PPL course I was current on gliders, I had a share in a single seater, I mentioned that to two instructors, I didn't make a big deal about it, nor expect special treatment, but to start the lessons with demonstrating "basic primary effects of controls" I thought was a bit much. But I said no more and just went with the flow.
No doubt I'll come across here as some kind of smart ass.
Not, I might add that the CAA should be expected to credit that time for the issue of a licence, just that the flying school should respect that you are not a raw, dumb, useless rookie that has never seen an aeroplane before.
When I went to the flying school to begin the PPL course I was current on gliders, I had a share in a single seater, I mentioned that to two instructors, I didn't make a big deal about it, nor expect special treatment, but to start the lessons with demonstrating "basic primary effects of controls" I thought was a bit much. But I said no more and just went with the flow.
No doubt I'll come across here as some kind of smart ass.
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 639
Likes: 4
From: Mare Imbrium
[QUOTE=Crash one;9750671
When I went to the flying school to begin the PPL course I was current on gliders, I had a share in a single seater, I mentioned that to two instructors, I didn't make a big deal about it, nor expect special treatment, but to start the lessons with demonstrating "basic primary effects of controls" I thought was a bit much. But I said no more and just went with the flow.
No doubt I'll come across here as some kind of smart ass.[/QUOTE]
Not a smart ass, Crash, but you need to see it from the instructors point of view. They will have had previous students claiming all sorts of experience that turned out to be invention. Working properly through the syllabus is the only way to make sure it all gets covered. Of course your progress would have been rapid given your previous experience.
When I went to the flying school to begin the PPL course I was current on gliders, I had a share in a single seater, I mentioned that to two instructors, I didn't make a big deal about it, nor expect special treatment, but to start the lessons with demonstrating "basic primary effects of controls" I thought was a bit much. But I said no more and just went with the flow.
No doubt I'll come across here as some kind of smart ass.[/QUOTE]
Not a smart ass, Crash, but you need to see it from the instructors point of view. They will have had previous students claiming all sorts of experience that turned out to be invention. Working properly through the syllabus is the only way to make sure it all gets covered. Of course your progress would have been rapid given your previous experience.
