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Old 18th Apr 2017, 23:51   #1 (permalink)
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: N/W London
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Sandown - Motor Gliders no longer welcome?

Hi All,

On a recent visit to the usual delightful airfield that is Sandown on the Isle of Wight, I was disappointed to find that the landing fee for a motor-glider has now been increased to a level greater than that for a single engine GA aircraft.

This is a surprising decision at a time when I'd have thought airfields would want to encourage visitors? As a matter of principle, my syndicate will unfortunately now be landing elsewhere when visiting the island.

Regards

FA
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Old 19th Apr 2017, 11:16   #2 (permalink)
 
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Somebody has worked out that motorgliders take up more parking space. :-)
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Old 19th Apr 2017, 15:17   #3 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Strathaven Airfield
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The rates on Sandown website are:

Microlight 7.00
Gyrocopter 7.00
Single Engine (up to 1200kgs MTOW) 12.00
Single Engine (up to 2000kgs MTOW) 18.00
Twin Engine 25.00
Helicopter 20.00
Motor Glider 20.00
Touch & Go 50% of applicable landing fee
Touch & Go Hourly (or part thereof) 25.00

Have you asked them why the motorglider rate is such?

(I can see that some C42 pilots might, for instance, wonder why a light aircraft one is 12 whereas a microlight one is 7, and so on, but price lists are ever thus.)

Our overnight hangarage rate - for instance - probably doesn't cover our costs, since we have to insure for the maximum value in the hangars on any one night for the whole year. In other words, if we have #1 million of aircraft based here and someone wants to park a Spitfire indoors for just one night, we have to pay an annual premium based on 2 million!

But we have chosen to absorb some of this. (Although you might still be asked to park outside if visiting!)

There may be some hidden costs for motorgliders that we don't know, or they may just be a pain due to their wingspan!

And do you really feel 8 is worth rejecting the pleasure of flying to a nice airfield?

Try parking a car at Glasgow or Edinburgh airports!
xrayalpha is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th Apr 2017, 22:49   #4 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
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Try parking a motor glider at Glasgow or Edinburgh airports.
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Old 19th Apr 2017, 23:57   #5 (permalink)
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Maybe they are just jealous that I can cruise along at 90kts sipping a fraction of the fuel that a 12 spam can burns!

While there are other IOW airfields available who do not penalise motor gliders, I know where our custom is going!

Bye Sandown - its been fun!



Quote:
Originally Posted by xrayalpha View Post
The rates on Sandown website are:

Microlight 7.00
Gyrocopter 7.00
Single Engine (up to 1200kgs MTOW) 12.00
Single Engine (up to 2000kgs MTOW) 18.00
Twin Engine 25.00
Helicopter 20.00
Motor Glider 20.00
Touch & Go 50% of applicable landing fee
Touch & Go Hourly (or part thereof) 25.00

Have you asked them why the motorglider rate is such?

(I can see that some C42 pilots might, for instance, wonder why a light aircraft one is 12 whereas a microlight one is 7, and so on, but price lists are ever thus.)

Our overnight hangarage rate - for instance - probably doesn't cover our costs, since we have to insure for the maximum value in the hangars on any one night for the whole year. In other words, if we have #1 million of aircraft based here and someone wants to park a Spitfire indoors for just one night, we have to pay an annual premium based on 2 million!

But we have chosen to absorb some of this. (Although you might still be asked to park outside if visiting!)

There may be some hidden costs for motorgliders that we don't know, or they may just be a pain due to their wingspan!

And do you really feel 8 is worth rejecting the pleasure of flying to a nice airfield?

Try parking a car at Glasgow or Edinburgh airports!
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Old 20th Apr 2017, 07:42   #6 (permalink)
 
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Location: 500m and right a bit off 02 at RAF Barford St John.
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17.4 metres on a Grob 109 as opposed to 11m for a 172... that probably explains the difference....

Do I winge that my 12m wingspan is the same landing fee as yours even though I'm the same size as the 172?

As for an airfield being jealous....ffs.
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Old 20th Apr 2017, 18:40   #7 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
(I can see that some C42 pilots might, for instance, wonder why a light aircraft one is 12 whereas a microlight one is 7, and so on, but price lists are ever thus.)
I heard the new owner was a microlight pilot (from the grapevine so might be complete rubbish). Also a microlight is a VERY WIDE category, from the weight shifters to basically a Cessna 152 size plane with all glass cockpit. I have a feeling that airfields should differentiate between these.... Not that I fly them anyway...! A few places I've been to, differentiate by both number of engines, and number of seats, which I find quite nice as an alternative to MTOW.
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Old 20th Apr 2017, 19:21   #8 (permalink)
 
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2 or 4 seats?

Wellesbourne, which is a great place to visit, charges more for 4 seaters singles than 2 seater. Feels a bit harsh when I go in solo
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Old 20th Apr 2017, 19:31   #9 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
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If you had not noticed CONSIDERABLE investment in Sandown has been made over the last 2 years... drainage, hard standings, fuel etc..

These things cost money...
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Old 20th Apr 2017, 19:38   #10 (permalink)
 
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I fly a 480kg aircraft that is indistiguishable from its microlight version, but willingly own up and pay the extra fiver in the landing fee at Sandown. It is worth every penny.
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Old 20th Apr 2017, 22:20   #11 (permalink)
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The jealousy bit was meant to be humorous Duchess.....

I also use less runway if it comes to that :-)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duchess_Driver View Post
17.4 metres on a Grob 109 as opposed to 11m for a 172... that probably explains the difference....

Do I winge that my 12m wingspan is the same landing fee as yours even though I'm the same size as the 172?

As for an airfield being jealous....ffs.
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Old 20th Apr 2017, 23:16   #12 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: New South Wales, Australia
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Disappointing. It's more the principle than anything else. An RF4 Motorglider has a wingspan almost identical to a 172!
Why they couldn't charge in-between the two SEP classes I don't know, 15 would've been fair but this is clearly a cash cow against motorgliders. They may have invested in their facilities but there's no Mogas for us or even a card machine! Ah well, plenty of other places to visit instead....
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Old 21st Apr 2017, 11:31   #13 (permalink)


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If it were about money, increasing landing fees by 1 for all would raise more. This is about discouraging motor gliders, which is a great shame as Sandown has always been a pleasure to visit.
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Old 21st Apr 2017, 12:29   #14 (permalink)
 
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Why would they want to discourage motor gliders from visiting?
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Old 21st Apr 2017, 16:01   #15 (permalink)
 
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Location: Strathaven Airfield
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Last time I asked, parking a microlight at Glasgow was just 50p for two hours!

(It was during the ash cloud period, and there were no landing fees either!)

Before you get all excited, there were departure fees, navigation fees, handling agent fees and VAT - plus I think another fees just to collect the fees. Came to 140+ if I recall correct!

Maybe Sandown should charge a "handling fee" for motorgliders and the same landing fee as light aircraft ;-)
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Old 21st Apr 2017, 16:10   #16 (permalink)
 
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The last time that I flew into Sandown I do not recollect paying a landing fee, but that was sixty years ago!!
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Old 21st Apr 2017, 18:48   #17 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: London
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If a motorglider lands without its engine, does it pay glider landing fees for not annoying the neighbours?
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Old 21st Apr 2017, 19:16   #18 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
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Quote:
The landing fees were 2 quid.
So if inflation was followed from 1970 year on year, the price of the landing would be 30.25 at Sandown today.

The instructor would be: 45.38 (comparable to today)
The plane would be: 378.18 an hour (more than double what we pay today)

Calculations from: (http://bit.ly/2p9BDEK)

Something tells me that we're getting a good deal.....
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Old 21st Apr 2017, 23:18   #19 (permalink)
 
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Last time I landed at Glasgow it was 80p. 1980 something.
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Old 22nd Apr 2017, 00:02   #20 (permalink)
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Australia
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Just say you never glide it and pay the microlight fee as it should be light enough to be classified as that.
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