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i dont believe it!

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i dont believe it!

Old 18th Apr 2017, 21:54
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i dont believe it!

seen at the airfield today, on concrete, some guy hand swinging a Stampe, nobody in the cockpit, no chocks, aiming at a line of parked aircraft, how good are those parking brakes?? better than a C152 i hope.

Last edited by memories of px; 20th Apr 2017 at 10:46.
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Old 18th Apr 2017, 22:23
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Originally Posted by memories of px View Post
seen at the airfield today, on concrete, some guy hand swinging a Stampe, nobody in the cockpit, no chocks, how good are those parking brakes?? better than a C152 i hope.
I don't believe the Stampe is fitted with a parking brake.

Was the start successful or even a runaway success perhaps?
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Old 18th Apr 2017, 23:39
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Why do I get the feeling that that this "guy" is being regarded as a fool of some kind.
If he was swinging the prop in this fashion, then the chances are he has done it before and might just know what he is doing.
Was it successful?
Did it run away?
Did it run over him?
Did you wait to see if it turned to worms?
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Old 19th Apr 2017, 08:23
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it was a success, it didnt run away, he climbed back in and taxiied off,in my aircraft were two atpl holders, 30,000 hours plus between us, both senior instructors, one a caa panel examiner, both shaking our heads,, its all about risk management, just because you get away with a particular technique doesnt make it the right one.
I once saw a successful swing start on a tiger moth , where the throttles were accidentally left fully open, flipped over and was destroyed.
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Old 19th Apr 2017, 08:32
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Did he have a rope attached to a ground stake around the tail wheel, with a slip knot, that could be released once he was in the cockpit?
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Old 19th Apr 2017, 08:43
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https://www.gov.uk/aaib-reports/stam...c-5-april-2009

I was a close witness to the above, which reduced a pristine biplane to a wreck. Scary as hell as it rotated it's way across the airfield on full power, and a sickening feeling when it took off. Fortunately it didn't get far in the air.

.
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Old 19th Apr 2017, 09:01
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Two sides to every argument:

1. He's done it a million times like that, it's always been fine.
2. It only needs to go wrong once and...

Unless there is some major advantage to doing option 1, putting at least some sort of risk mitigation in place seems more sensible. There's enough risk in aviation without ignoring simple solutions to reduce it (and I should know). We're doing 'very risky' things all the time - but we attempt to reduce that risk as much as practically possible (whilst still doing it!).
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Old 19th Apr 2017, 09:04
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I hope he was wearing safety glasses, hi vis vest, hard hat and gloves. Can't be too careful with these things you know.
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Old 19th Apr 2017, 10:13
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Originally Posted by memories of px View Post
it was a success, it didnt run away, he climbed back in and taxiied off,in my aircraft were two atpl holders, 30,000 hours plus between us, both senior instructors, one a caa panel examiner, both shaking our heads,, its all about risk management, just because you get away with a particular technique doesnt make it the right one.
I once saw a successful swing start on a tiger moth , where the throttles were accidentally left fully open, flipped over and was destroyed.
If it's all about risk management and this guy managed the risk, then where is the problem?
I think this is more to do with risk perception by the observer, which is far more variable.
A swing start that flipped over with throttles fully open would not be considered a success, nor was the risk managed in my view.
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Old 19th Apr 2017, 10:29
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I took off yesterday, with about ten knots of crosswind straight across the runway from the right.
The farmer was seeding the grass to the left close to the runway.
He stopped to watch me pass.
The tail came up and I swung severely to the left, for a few seconds I was "concerned" to say the least.
With a boot full of right rudder and some right aileron I dragged the left wheel off first and cleared the tractor by forty feet.
We waved.
I do not think I managed the risk very well and I will not repeat that scenario again.
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Old 19th Apr 2017, 10:51
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It was the most common practice I remember from my youth. Pretty certain I sat in the Auster at the age of seven while Macey swung it. I think he used to pull the chocks as he climbed in.
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Old 19th Apr 2017, 20:18
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"in my aircraft were two atpl holders, 30,000 hours plus between us, both senior instructors, one a caa panel examiner, both shaking our heads,"

How many of the 30,000 hours were in aircraft which are handswung?
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Old 19th Apr 2017, 21:08
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What's a senior instructor?
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Old 19th Apr 2017, 21:18
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One who has reached old age?
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Old 19th Apr 2017, 21:24
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People who fly Stampes/Moths etc tend to be fairly knowledgeable and experienced pilots.
Had either of our two 30,000hr chaps been that concerned , then surely the best way of dealing with this would've been to walk over and enquire if the pilot in question was aware of what he was doing.
He may well have been a lesser experienced guy who could have benefitted from the OP's superior knowledge .
Or he may have been flying Moths/Stampes for as many years as his observers have been flying.
But they can't answer that ; because instead of making a positive input , one of them decided to put it onto a forum instead !
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Old 19th Apr 2017, 21:46
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Stampes have brakes
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Old 20th Apr 2017, 01:26
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I find it hard to believe that two ATPL "senior" instructors with 30000 hrs between them have got that far down their careers without noticing that swinging a prop on this type of aircraft is quite normal and does not warrant shaking of heads in disbelief.
It begs the question, what exactly do they think of the general competency of pilots who are not known to be quite so God like as they obviously are?
If I were the Stampe pilot and read this thread I think words would be exchanged.
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Old 20th Apr 2017, 08:14
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I am still trying to work out what a senior instructor is.
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Old 20th Apr 2017, 08:16
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Free bus travel to-from the airfield.

Come on, obvious! :-)
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Old 20th Apr 2017, 08:52
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Haha! Nice one Sam!
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