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Asking for Basic Service vs Listening Squawk?

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Asking for Basic Service vs Listening Squawk?

Old 4th Apr 2017, 22:22
  #21 (permalink)  
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Leeds
Posts: 54
Originally Posted by Shoestring Flyer View Post
Sorry your line of thinking is beyond me...
I am advocating talking not listening and then ATC will tell you via the Basic Service you are receiving if you are going to bust airspace won't they!
Talk every time for me. Listening squawks give you nothing that a Basic Service won't give you better.
I used to think that, but as the hours have built, I've learned to be like the wise old owl.
A le Ron is offline  
Old 4th Apr 2017, 22:53
  #22 (permalink)  
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: London
Posts: 444
I mean... Do you really need ATC to tell you that you're about to (or have) bust controlled airspace? Really?

I mean accidents do happen, but today, with increasing numbers of garmin installed as 8.33khz replacements, and ever increasing number of people using skydemon with GPS receivers, it seems hard to do so by mistake. I remember someone talking to Farnborough west, who happened to have strayed 3 miles into the LHR zone, being told "turn south immediately, you are inside controlled airspace", and the response from the pilot was "Oh we'll just head west for 1 mile" - i mean... It did make me laugh but the stupidity of this pilot was clearly even beyond even the help of ATC!

I'd like to just point out that if you have a mode S transponder installed, the controller not only knows your altitude, but also your registration. So if you happen to use the listening squawk, I see no reason why ATC would treat you any differently to anyone being provided a basic service. I have occasionally been passed traffic information with nothing more than listening squawk. Which in my mind was pretty damn good! I have also heard ATC call for "plane just south of Bewl Water on listening squawk, say callsign", I mean it did take 2 tries but the pilot did respond! So the system, CAN work...

Sure it doesn't increase our situational awareness, but does it really reduce it? Quite often on basic service, it really doesn't. Someone calling for a basic service just south of Sevenoaks, saying that he is going to Lydd, does not necessarily mean that s/he'll go in a direct line to Lydd, s/he may well go via Beachy Head for a spot of sightseeing! And s/he may not call again until reaching Rye for QSY (ahem! Sorry meant frequency change!) to Lydd.

And to those saying that it is pushing people to use ADS-B, well I don't know, ADS-B does increase your situational awareness quite considerably! Sure, right now it is very expensive to install, but perhaps in a year or two it'll drop in price, and become much more commonplace to have both ADS-B IN and OUT!
alex90 is offline  
Old 4th Apr 2017, 22:54
  #23 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 3,954
FFB - how do you make your 'aircraft as conspicuous as possible'?
rusty sparrow, If you've got a taxi/landing flight fly with it on from take off to landing. When flying straight and level (especially in congested areas) bank the wings each way every few minutes - aircraft are more visible when banked. Also avoid flying at 2,000 ft, 3,000 ft etc - pick an "odd" altitude such as 2,300 ft!
fireflybob is offline  
Old 5th Apr 2017, 08:05
  #24 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Midlands
Posts: 200
Originally Posted by A le Ron View Post
I used to think that, but as the hours have built, I've learned to be like the wise old owl.
Well after 35years of flying I haven't changed my opinion. I obviously haven't been flying long enough yet!

Last edited by Shoestring Flyer; 5th Apr 2017 at 08:29.
Shoestring Flyer is offline  
Old 5th Apr 2017, 09:18
  #25 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Behind the curve
Posts: 275
Shoestring Flyer,

Having spent my formative first decade in the military flying 2000 hrs in another hemisphere over hundreds of often featureless miles with "iffy" charts and no radio aids and with very little other traffic to concern me, followed by a professional career based in the UK lasting over 3 decades and benefitting from sophistication including the very latest glass cockpit, I feel qualified to express an opinion.

Over 1000 hrs of my 19000 hrs in your world have been spent flying a small 2 seater VFR which happily has a transponder, but a very basic old GPS. So I trust my finger following a line on the chart more than the GPS which sometimes "freezes" when the radio's set to a particular local frequency. Naturally I still navigate small aircraft using the old techniques.

Having the benefit of long experience with different flying environments, it's communicate by every available means for me every time. Aviate and navigate come first and second, but communicate both verbally and with listening squawk as appropriate. Anything less in congested UK airspace makes me feel more at risk.

Last edited by Colibri49; 5th Apr 2017 at 10:07.
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Old 5th Apr 2017, 10:17
  #26 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Midlands
Posts: 200
Absolutely...If you can communicate, communicate. Listening Squawks should not be a replacement for communicating!
Shoestring Flyer is offline  

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