Asking for Basic Service vs Listening Squawk?
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< Irrespective I will be maintaining a lookout and making my aircraft as conspicuous as possible and even plan the flight to avoid choke points when possible.>
FFB - how do you make your 'aircraft as conspicuous as possible'? When flying a slow Jodel D9 I was always aware that a faster aircraft (esp. low wing) coming up behind me might not see me. Those were times that a rear view mirror could have been useful. Or big banner towed behind me!
FFB - how do you make your 'aircraft as conspicuous as possible'? When flying a slow Jodel D9 I was always aware that a faster aircraft (esp. low wing) coming up behind me might not see me. Those were times that a rear view mirror could have been useful. Or big banner towed behind me!
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Sorry your line of thinking is beyond me...
I am advocating talking not listening and then ATC will tell you via the Basic Service you are receiving if you are going to bust airspace won't they!
Talk every time for me. Listening squawks give you nothing that a Basic Service won't give you better.
I am advocating talking not listening and then ATC will tell you via the Basic Service you are receiving if you are going to bust airspace won't they!
Talk every time for me. Listening squawks give you nothing that a Basic Service won't give you better.
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I mean... Do you really need ATC to tell you that you're about to (or have) bust controlled airspace? Really?
I mean accidents do happen, but today, with increasing numbers of garmin installed as 8.33khz replacements, and ever increasing number of people using skydemon with GPS receivers, it seems hard to do so by mistake. I remember someone talking to Farnborough west, who happened to have strayed 3 miles into the LHR zone, being told "turn south immediately, you are inside controlled airspace", and the response from the pilot was "Oh we'll just head west for 1 mile" - i mean... It did make me laugh but the stupidity of this pilot was clearly even beyond even the help of ATC!
I'd like to just point out that if you have a mode S transponder installed, the controller not only knows your altitude, but also your registration. So if you happen to use the listening squawk, I see no reason why ATC would treat you any differently to anyone being provided a basic service. I have occasionally been passed traffic information with nothing more than listening squawk. Which in my mind was pretty damn good! I have also heard ATC call for "plane just south of Bewl Water on listening squawk, say callsign", I mean it did take 2 tries but the pilot did respond! So the system, CAN work...
Sure it doesn't increase our situational awareness, but does it really reduce it? Quite often on basic service, it really doesn't. Someone calling for a basic service just south of Sevenoaks, saying that he is going to Lydd, does not necessarily mean that s/he'll go in a direct line to Lydd, s/he may well go via Beachy Head for a spot of sightseeing! And s/he may not call again until reaching Rye for QSY (ahem! Sorry meant frequency change!) to Lydd.
And to those saying that it is pushing people to use ADS-B, well I don't know, ADS-B does increase your situational awareness quite considerably! Sure, right now it is very expensive to install, but perhaps in a year or two it'll drop in price, and become much more commonplace to have both ADS-B IN and OUT!
I mean accidents do happen, but today, with increasing numbers of garmin installed as 8.33khz replacements, and ever increasing number of people using skydemon with GPS receivers, it seems hard to do so by mistake. I remember someone talking to Farnborough west, who happened to have strayed 3 miles into the LHR zone, being told "turn south immediately, you are inside controlled airspace", and the response from the pilot was "Oh we'll just head west for 1 mile" - i mean... It did make me laugh but the stupidity of this pilot was clearly even beyond even the help of ATC!
I'd like to just point out that if you have a mode S transponder installed, the controller not only knows your altitude, but also your registration. So if you happen to use the listening squawk, I see no reason why ATC would treat you any differently to anyone being provided a basic service. I have occasionally been passed traffic information with nothing more than listening squawk. Which in my mind was pretty damn good! I have also heard ATC call for "plane just south of Bewl Water on listening squawk, say callsign", I mean it did take 2 tries but the pilot did respond! So the system, CAN work...
Sure it doesn't increase our situational awareness, but does it really reduce it? Quite often on basic service, it really doesn't. Someone calling for a basic service just south of Sevenoaks, saying that he is going to Lydd, does not necessarily mean that s/he'll go in a direct line to Lydd, s/he may well go via Beachy Head for a spot of sightseeing! And s/he may not call again until reaching Rye for QSY (ahem! Sorry meant frequency change!) to Lydd.
And to those saying that it is pushing people to use ADS-B, well I don't know, ADS-B does increase your situational awareness quite considerably! Sure, right now it is very expensive to install, but perhaps in a year or two it'll drop in price, and become much more commonplace to have both ADS-B IN and OUT!
FFB - how do you make your 'aircraft as conspicuous as possible'?
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Shoestring Flyer,
Having spent my formative first decade in the military flying 2000 hrs in another hemisphere over hundreds of often featureless miles with "iffy" charts and no radio aids and with very little other traffic to concern me, followed by a professional career based in the UK lasting over 3 decades and benefitting from sophistication including the very latest glass cockpit, I feel qualified to express an opinion.
Over 1000 hrs of my 19000 hrs in your world have been spent flying a small 2 seater VFR which happily has a transponder, but a very basic old GPS. So I trust my finger following a line on the chart more than the GPS which sometimes "freezes" when the radio's set to a particular local frequency. Naturally I still navigate small aircraft using the old techniques.
Having the benefit of long experience with different flying environments, it's communicate by every available means for me every time. Aviate and navigate come first and second, but communicate both verbally and with listening squawk as appropriate. Anything less in congested UK airspace makes me feel more at risk.
Having spent my formative first decade in the military flying 2000 hrs in another hemisphere over hundreds of often featureless miles with "iffy" charts and no radio aids and with very little other traffic to concern me, followed by a professional career based in the UK lasting over 3 decades and benefitting from sophistication including the very latest glass cockpit, I feel qualified to express an opinion.
Over 1000 hrs of my 19000 hrs in your world have been spent flying a small 2 seater VFR which happily has a transponder, but a very basic old GPS. So I trust my finger following a line on the chart more than the GPS which sometimes "freezes" when the radio's set to a particular local frequency. Naturally I still navigate small aircraft using the old techniques.
Having the benefit of long experience with different flying environments, it's communicate by every available means for me every time. Aviate and navigate come first and second, but communicate both verbally and with listening squawk as appropriate. Anything less in congested UK airspace makes me feel more at risk.
Last edited by Colibri49; 5th Apr 2017 at 10:07.
