Private Flying LAA/BMAA/BGA/BPA The sheer pleasure of flight.

Dodgy or legit?

Old 30th Nov 2017, 13:26
  #221 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
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What i object to is some PPL with 75 hrs, ONE hour on type, sitting there with his stripes, offering flights from blackbushe to fixed destinations at fixed prices, what a joke! The general public should be made aware of what theyre booking up, maybe the BBC's Watchdog should do a piece on it.
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Old 30th Nov 2017, 13:55
  #222 (permalink)  
 
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That’s a reasonable opinion to hold.

Whilst the METHOD (i.e. internet) by which the flight is offered is legal, offering the flight as you describe may not be if it is seen by the authorities as offering an air taxi service. You obviously see it as both a regulatory and a safety issue, so why don’t you report it and see what happens?

Edit: this was in reply to the previous post and I have not seen the advertised flight myself.
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Old 30th Nov 2017, 15:56
  #223 (permalink)  
 
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CA393 completed, i'll update when i hear anything.
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Old 2nd Dec 2017, 19:17
  #224 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by memories of px View Post
This is air taxi , you need a commercial licence, you need an AOC, 1179, 1319,a professional licence,stop kidding yourself and trying to kid others, have you told your insurance company what youre doing?, have you told the airports insurance company what youre doing??



Thats just nonsense, the pilot doesnt go to a destination unless a passenger wants to go there first!, just look at the wingly booking system!
Your post is based on hypothesis. My post is based on experience. I have only posted flights and taken Wingly passengers when I have had spare seats for predetermined destinations of my choice. Yes, insurance company is aware.
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Old 5th Dec 2017, 20:32
  #225 (permalink)  
 
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https://en.wingly.io/index.php?page=...&flight=288835

^^ This guy is even allowing patrons to take hold of the controls.
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Old 5th Dec 2017, 21:19
  #226 (permalink)  
 
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Some other pilot mentions the costs are shared between the passengers! i also see on another post that he is unable to operate this service as Wingly flights have been banned at Elstree, common sense at last .

https://en.wingly.io/index.php?page=...&flight=311886

Last edited by memories of px; 5th Dec 2017 at 21:47.
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Old 6th Dec 2017, 21:44
  #227 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by memories of px View Post
i also see on another post that he is unable to operate this service as Wingly flights have been banned at Elstree, common sense at last .

https://en.wingly.io/index.php?page=...&flight=311886
Does anybody know why?
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Old 7th Dec 2017, 09:18
  #228 (permalink)  
 
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And at Denham. Others will follow very quickly.


I banned them at our club as soon as I heard about them..............

Border Force and the Police most likely. Eventually they'll be limited to unlicensed airfields and farm strips.
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Old 7th Dec 2017, 09:57
  #229 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Good Business Sense View Post
Does anybody know why?
because a ppl shouldnt be doing " scenic flights" or "fear of flying " courses
or let a passenger take the controls, and a thousand other reasons.
Use a professional pilot.
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Old 7th Dec 2017, 11:13
  #230 (permalink)  
 
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to what standard are the aircraft maintained to? Public Transport?, Permit to Fly? do the
passengers get to know?
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Old 7th Dec 2017, 13:51
  #231 (permalink)  
 
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fill in form CA393 and see if the caa can do anything
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Old 7th Dec 2017, 14:47
  #232 (permalink)  
 
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Had a look at the website and can see some really low-time pilots with few hours after the PPL/LAPL course. Looks like they are using it for 'free' flying or hours building.

It is probably just legal, but....
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Old 7th Dec 2017, 15:29
  #233 (permalink)  
 
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It is probably just legal, but....
This discussion seems to be going round the same old arguments again and again. Wingly, and the other ride sharing sites, are simply a medium through which people can arrange to share flights and, so long as those flights themselves are legal, there is nothing wrong with that.

To be clear, as a matter of law:

1. Genuine cost sharing as defined by both the CAA and EASA (but not the FAA, who accept cost sharing but not these websites) is completely legitimate regardless of the medium by which it is arranged. For that reason, I see no reason for any airfield to ban genuine cost sharing flights of this type.

2. Running a taxi or other commercial service without the necessary licence and insurance is not legal, again regardless of how it was arranged; and if I was running an airfield, I’d ban flights of that type as well.

I honestly don’t understand why it is necessary, or even desirable, to try to ban all genuine cost sharing just because some people abuse the system. You might as well ban all cross-border GA flights because some people use them to smuggle in drugs. Surely the answer is to target the abusers and not the genuine cost sharers?

Edit: as I said in an earlier post, there is also no reason why the authorities can not also take action agains a site such as Wingly if they knowingly facilitate illegal activity.

BTW:I have no personal dog in this fight, because I have an FAA licence and therefore can’t use these sites myself. If I could, I would happily do so. Legally!
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Old 7th Dec 2017, 22:20
  #234 (permalink)  
 
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I'm neutral on the debate, FWIW I wouldn't do it but I'm not dependent on someone paying for me to go flying.

However, I struggle with the advertised flight referred to above from Redhill.

Pilot is PPL with total hours of 73, prepared to fly at 500 feet - presumably above sea level - for stunning views of Beachy Head.

I read further and see he has 'travelled across the Channel a fair few times'.

At 73 hours ... How ??? Something can't be right ?

Surely even the densest member of Joe Public might be suspicious of entrusting themselves to a 73 hour PPL ? Darwin waiting to work ?
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Old 8th Dec 2017, 17:54
  #235 (permalink)  
 
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Pilot is PPL with total hours of 73, prepared to fly at 500 feet - presumably above sea level - for stunning views of Beachy Head.
500 ft above sea level? I hope not: Beachy Head is 531 ft AMSL. You might get a more “stunning” view than you expected.......

Last edited by Jonzarno; 9th Dec 2017 at 08:50.
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Old 16th Dec 2017, 09:30
  #236 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Jonzarno View Post
Yes, but listing a flight doesnít generate income. That said, if the business does cross the VAT threshold Iíd be very surprised if they didnít comply. The consequences of failing to do so are quite unpleasant!

BTW Iím not sure but arenít they a German company? The Finanzamt there are even worse than HMRC!
French, Headquartered in Paris.
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Old 20th Dec 2017, 14:49
  #237 (permalink)  
 
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Ruling from EU about UBER

In its ruling, the ECJ said an “intermediation service”, “the purpose of which is to connect, by means of a smartphone application and for remuneration, non-professional drivers using their own vehicle with persons who wish to make urban journeys, must be regarded as being inherently linked to a transport service and, accordingly, must be classified as ‘a service in the field of transport’ within the meaning of EU law”.
Going to be interesting how this affects Wingly et all - I'm referring to, "Wingly et all" not "cost sharing"

Last edited by Good Business Sense; 20th Dec 2017 at 15:05.
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Old 21st Dec 2017, 17:50
  #238 (permalink)  
 
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Uber has been deemed a ‘transport service’ by the European Court of Justice and not, as it previously argued, a digital service – a move that could have big implications for the way the company operates.The ride hailing company has previously argued it merely provides a digital service to connect passengers and drivers and so is not, in the classical sense, a transport company. But EU judges disagreed, ruling that Uber’s “main component is a transport service”.

Sounds familiar, any groans from the cheap seats?

Last edited by memories of px; 21st Dec 2017 at 21:28.
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Old 21st Dec 2017, 18:40
  #239 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by memories of px View Post
so much for the "this has run its course" brigade... watch this space
Groan......

Dodgy or legit?
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Old 21st Dec 2017, 20:03
  #240 (permalink)  
 
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Wingly sells flight tickets to the public for flights with non professional pilots using their own vehicle - after the flight Wingly pays the pilot after deducting a fee

The above is almost word for word to that in the judgement against Uber.

In addition, Wingly sells GIFT VOUCHERS to the public for flights with yet to be identified non professional pilots. The Gift voucher is sold to person X who gives it to person Y for a flight with pilot A - person Y has to that point probably never even thought of taking a flight in a light aircraft never mind "cost sharing".

My insurer says that due to the transactions taking place they believe it is a commercial flight. Forget cost sharing - this is about Wingly which is a profit making commercial enterprise who makes money, using private pilots, from selling flight tickets to the public.

I see 6 seat aircraft are now demanding a premium - saw a Wingly flight being advertised on a Cherokee six that was charging the equivalent of over £400 per hour - I don't know the six but .....
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