PPL - can you help others?
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PPL - can you help others?
Dear All,
As this is my first post I hope I've posted in the correct forum.
I am currently undertaking my PPL in the UK. I recognise and acknowledge that PPL holders must not operate for valuable consideration, i.e. any form of reward, either financial or in kind.
I appreciate the CAA recently issued a clear directive on charity flying. However, my query is, internationally are there any operations or charities that seek voluntary pilots to help others (for example, transporting blood or taking terminally ill patients for recreational pleasure flights etc)?
It would be inspiring to know if there's an opportunity to help others voluntary once I (hopefully) complete my license?
Many thanks
Joseph
As this is my first post I hope I've posted in the correct forum.
I am currently undertaking my PPL in the UK. I recognise and acknowledge that PPL holders must not operate for valuable consideration, i.e. any form of reward, either financial or in kind.
I appreciate the CAA recently issued a clear directive on charity flying. However, my query is, internationally are there any operations or charities that seek voluntary pilots to help others (for example, transporting blood or taking terminally ill patients for recreational pleasure flights etc)?
It would be inspiring to know if there's an opportunity to help others voluntary once I (hopefully) complete my license?
Many thanks
Joseph
Last edited by Joseph Hayat; 10th Feb 2017 at 20:46.
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I am not aware of any such organisation.
The FAR (the US regs) has very specific strictures about such things e.g. charity flight etc. one has to have logged several hundred hours before it is legit, notify the district office and a whole lot more.
When I get home I will post the reference to the FAR - there is likely and even more onerous EASA version - I know of this as I was asked to do the very thing here at the airport open day a few years ago, looked up the rules and I didn't make the minimum hours, plus the hassle of the district office approval was just too much.
No matter what happens with a simple PPL if you are not paying the full cost of operating the airplane you will be breaking the law and potentially exposing yourself to civil liability if something goes wrong.
What you need to do post PPL is build the minimum hours for a commercial license and then maybe such a wheeze would work.
The FAR (the US regs) has very specific strictures about such things e.g. charity flight etc. one has to have logged several hundred hours before it is legit, notify the district office and a whole lot more.
When I get home I will post the reference to the FAR - there is likely and even more onerous EASA version - I know of this as I was asked to do the very thing here at the airport open day a few years ago, looked up the rules and I didn't make the minimum hours, plus the hassle of the district office approval was just too much.
No matter what happens with a simple PPL if you are not paying the full cost of operating the airplane you will be breaking the law and potentially exposing yourself to civil liability if something goes wrong.
What you need to do post PPL is build the minimum hours for a commercial license and then maybe such a wheeze would work.
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As a new PPL you will be fairly busy just learning how to fly new types etc.
My employer regularly provides aircraft for organ donor and similar flights, the pressure on a fully trained commercial crew to perform can be huge, a low time, low qualification PPL would be a dangerous and highly illegal step.
In my career I've flown SAR, UN aid and a variety of air ambulances both fixed and rotary wing, all bring similar and different pressures which is why they tend to be flown by high time pro's, and are stiffly regulated.
Go finish your license and then offer to help at LAA Young Eagles days. You'll learn a lot from the other pilots and a lot about yourself if you have to disappoint hopeful youngsters.
SND
My employer regularly provides aircraft for organ donor and similar flights, the pressure on a fully trained commercial crew to perform can be huge, a low time, low qualification PPL would be a dangerous and highly illegal step.
In my career I've flown SAR, UN aid and a variety of air ambulances both fixed and rotary wing, all bring similar and different pressures which is why they tend to be flown by high time pro's, and are stiffly regulated.
Go finish your license and then offer to help at LAA Young Eagles days. You'll learn a lot from the other pilots and a lot about yourself if you have to disappoint hopeful youngsters.
SND
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Air Search?
Hi Joseph.
Maybe you should consider joining an organisation such as Air Search? If you are London-based, then the South-East branch trains at Rochester, and that could be convenient. Air Search is composed of Pilots and Observers who all give their time (and costs) free, to assist the emergency services, of whoever asks their help. Part of Kent Voluntary Services Emergency Group.
Often this is to help training exercises by photography prior or during, but you could be called out in particular circumstances. If not qualified yet, you could join in first as an observer, and this could give you experience sitting in with experienced pilots, which might help your overall flying, and importantly, be fun!
Once qualified, it gives a purpose to your flying, rather than just going for the £100 hamburger. And the social aspect works for me too.
If interested, PM me with an email or number and I can tell you more.
Maybe you should consider joining an organisation such as Air Search? If you are London-based, then the South-East branch trains at Rochester, and that could be convenient. Air Search is composed of Pilots and Observers who all give their time (and costs) free, to assist the emergency services, of whoever asks their help. Part of Kent Voluntary Services Emergency Group.
Often this is to help training exercises by photography prior or during, but you could be called out in particular circumstances. If not qualified yet, you could join in first as an observer, and this could give you experience sitting in with experienced pilots, which might help your overall flying, and importantly, be fun!
Once qualified, it gives a purpose to your flying, rather than just going for the £100 hamburger. And the social aspect works for me too.
If interested, PM me with an email or number and I can tell you more.
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Before thinking charity flying, you have to become a decent pilot with more experience than a PPL license gives you. Think, as a charity flyer you carry responsibility for foreign lifes and you have to become a fairly decent skilled airmen before you do that.
There are organizations around internationally, but typically they want to see at least i.e. >300h PIC, IR and 20h on type last 12 month or at least >200h PIC, IR and 10h on type last 12 month for flying with safety pilot (this example from flyinghope).
There are organizations around internationally, but typically they want to see at least i.e. >300h PIC, IR and 20h on type last 12 month or at least >200h PIC, IR and 10h on type last 12 month for flying with safety pilot (this example from flyinghope).
Dear All,
As this is my first post I hope I've posted in the correct forum.
I am currently undertaking my PPL in the UK. I recognise and acknowledge that PPL holders must not operate for valuable consideration, i.e. any form of reward, either financial or in kind.
I appreciate the CAA recently issued a clear directive on charity flying. However, my query is, internationally are there any operations or charities that seek voluntary pilots to help others (for example, transporting blood or taking terminally ill patients for recreational pleasure flights etc)?
It would be inspiring to know if there's an opportunity to help others voluntary once I (hopefully) complete my license?
Many thanks
Joseph
As this is my first post I hope I've posted in the correct forum.
I am currently undertaking my PPL in the UK. I recognise and acknowledge that PPL holders must not operate for valuable consideration, i.e. any form of reward, either financial or in kind.
I appreciate the CAA recently issued a clear directive on charity flying. However, my query is, internationally are there any operations or charities that seek voluntary pilots to help others (for example, transporting blood or taking terminally ill patients for recreational pleasure flights etc)?
It would be inspiring to know if there's an opportunity to help others voluntary once I (hopefully) complete my license?
Many thanks
Joseph
However, there are certainly organisations who will be very happy to have you as a volunteer with flying knowledge over the next few years whilst you build experience in the cockpit.
The Air Cadets, local aviation museums, one or the true volunteer flying clubs who might need people to help out on the radio or with charity days. All of these, and others, are very welcoming of knowledgeable and enthusiastic volunteers.
For a few people, this might eventually turn into something where they do some voluntary flying as well. For many people, it turns out not to matter.
G
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Before thinking charity flying, you have to become a decent pilot with more experience than a PPL license gives you. Think, as a charity flyer you carry responsibility for foreign lifes and you have to become a fairly decent skilled airmen before you do that.
There are organizations around internationally, but typically they want to see at least i.e. >300h PIC, IR and 20h on type last 12 month or at least >200h PIC, IR and 10h on type last 12 month for flying with safety pilot (this example from flyinghope).
There are organizations around internationally, but typically they want to see at least i.e. >300h PIC, IR and 20h on type last 12 month or at least >200h PIC, IR and 10h on type last 12 month for flying with safety pilot (this example from flyinghope).
If you want to build hours for a commercial licence and an ATPL, you would do best to get a share in a low cost aeroplane, move on to glider towing or para dropping and than an instructors rating
Try to find an organisation that offers 'introductory flights'. Under the EU regulations, these can be conducted by LAPL and PPL holders and provide a useful means of building hours at no cost. There are a number of technical restrictions imposed by the regulations but the CAA have admitted that the regulation is so ineptly drafted that they are, to all intents and purposes, unenforceable. In practice, organisations such as Groupon are offering vouchers for 'introductory flights' which, while strictly speaking illegal, are unlikely ever to attract any enforcement action.
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As others have said, get at least several hundred hours under your belt and an IR before starting to ferry unsuspecting members of the public around, terminally ill or not.
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If you want to immerse yourself more in general aviation, a good way is to be there, but focus less on being the pilot in the beginning. Everyone knows that if you're around the airport, you want to be flying, so be patient.
But, in the mean time, your very best formula is to pay for the modest amount of rental you can afford, and then spend time around the airport helping in a non flying role. Simply being at the airport puts you where the flying is happening, and the flying people are. That's what you want. You want to be known and liked by the people who own and fly 'planes. Your opportunity to ride along, even as just a passenger at some times, will demonstrate you're worthy of their investment in you. You'll be along, and learn some things. The pilots who get to know you will know that you've been a [albeit junior] member of the group, and are worthy of the trust.
Offer to pump fuel, wash windshields, carry bags, and scrub dirty aircraft bellies. When you see an interesting aircraft type, go and chat with the pilot about it - pilots love to talk about their 'planes! Your best opportunities in aviation happen when you're at the airport! The piloting will come in time, demonstrate patience....
But, in the mean time, your very best formula is to pay for the modest amount of rental you can afford, and then spend time around the airport helping in a non flying role. Simply being at the airport puts you where the flying is happening, and the flying people are. That's what you want. You want to be known and liked by the people who own and fly 'planes. Your opportunity to ride along, even as just a passenger at some times, will demonstrate you're worthy of their investment in you. You'll be along, and learn some things. The pilots who get to know you will know that you've been a [albeit junior] member of the group, and are worthy of the trust.
Offer to pump fuel, wash windshields, carry bags, and scrub dirty aircraft bellies. When you see an interesting aircraft type, go and chat with the pilot about it - pilots love to talk about their 'planes! Your best opportunities in aviation happen when you're at the airport! The piloting will come in time, demonstrate patience....
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I would echo the advice that you should build a good level of experience before doing this.
Once you have done so, two suggestions I would offer are:
1. Fly2Help is an organisation that arranges short flights for children who are unwell, usually taking their parents or carers as well. I have done several flights for them and think it is a great idea.
2. Project Propeller involves flying WW2 veterans to an annual reunion. I have been doing this for some years and it is a great experience for the pilots and is very much appreciated by the veterans.
I suggest you search for it on the Flyer forum.
Best of luck with the PPL!
Once you have done so, two suggestions I would offer are:
1. Fly2Help is an organisation that arranges short flights for children who are unwell, usually taking their parents or carers as well. I have done several flights for them and think it is a great idea.
2. Project Propeller involves flying WW2 veterans to an annual reunion. I have been doing this for some years and it is a great experience for the pilots and is very much appreciated by the veterans.
I suggest you search for it on the Flyer forum.
Best of luck with the PPL!
Wow, quite a lot of negativity.
Hi Joseph, when I was training I had exactly the same thoughts. It seems an obvious thing to do, to share an experience we love and enjoy, with others less fortunate. Why not share and give something back.
I thought when I passed I'd be a fully formed pilot, then I passed. I'm now a low hours PPL.
I suddenly realised the difference between having a pilot in the other seat, and a nephew, or a child, or a father, or a mother.
There's a difference between PIC of yourself solo, and PIC of a real passenger (not your FI or another pilot). I couldn't believe the difference.
I believe your post comes with the correct intentions, I believe that once you have a license, you'll think "blimey, I need to get GOOD at this before I take others flying". You'll not be good when you pass. I thought I'd be a fully formed pilot, able to take any random passenger anywhere. How wrong I was !
I thought I'd be offering to fly anyone and everyone once I had my license. I'm now working on being good enough to do so. It's my new aim after gaining my PPL, be good enough that I'm happy to take the responsibility of flying a stranger.
Anyway, forget any negativity above, just enjoy your PPL, and realise when you have it, that's step one to the charity flights. I'll do one one day (when I'm good enough), and I'm sure you will too.
Good luck with your PPL, enjoy it!
See you at some charity flying events, as pilots, when we're good enough ;-)
Hi Joseph, when I was training I had exactly the same thoughts. It seems an obvious thing to do, to share an experience we love and enjoy, with others less fortunate. Why not share and give something back.
I thought when I passed I'd be a fully formed pilot, then I passed. I'm now a low hours PPL.
I suddenly realised the difference between having a pilot in the other seat, and a nephew, or a child, or a father, or a mother.
There's a difference between PIC of yourself solo, and PIC of a real passenger (not your FI or another pilot). I couldn't believe the difference.
I believe your post comes with the correct intentions, I believe that once you have a license, you'll think "blimey, I need to get GOOD at this before I take others flying". You'll not be good when you pass. I thought I'd be a fully formed pilot, able to take any random passenger anywhere. How wrong I was !
I thought I'd be offering to fly anyone and everyone once I had my license. I'm now working on being good enough to do so. It's my new aim after gaining my PPL, be good enough that I'm happy to take the responsibility of flying a stranger.
Anyway, forget any negativity above, just enjoy your PPL, and realise when you have it, that's step one to the charity flights. I'll do one one day (when I'm good enough), and I'm sure you will too.
Good luck with your PPL, enjoy it!
See you at some charity flying events, as pilots, when we're good enough ;-)
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Negativity? Possibly yes. But don't forget, once we were low houred PPL's as well. Had the question been, what do I do next, then the replies would have been more positive.
PM
PM
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There certainly is not a lot of negativity in the foregoing posts, but rather a lot of realism. The fact that a person would like to do something does not create negativity when it is explained that it is not possible as proposed, it's just reality.
The reality is that a fresh PPL is a great achievement, and a license to learn. everyone who has progressed well past that milestone knows that - including aircraft owners and insurers. Therefore, they will quietly exercise their due diligence in assuring that fresh PPLs have the opportunity to gain experience faster than the opportunity to find themselves in risky situations with "the public" depending upon them.
The first few hundred hours of piloting experience is not so much about getting that number in the pilot logbook, but rather having had enough varying experiences that the new pilot is competent in most situations they could encounter.
As I said earlier, if a new pilot is a member of a social pilot group, and exposed to, and participates in group flying activities, some of that experience and confidence will come faster, as will its recognition. Flying clubs are great for this.
The "negativity" of very experienced pilots not offering all kinds of ideas about public service flying is very much more positive than a bad outcome because someone tried.
The reality is that a fresh PPL is a great achievement, and a license to learn. everyone who has progressed well past that milestone knows that - including aircraft owners and insurers. Therefore, they will quietly exercise their due diligence in assuring that fresh PPLs have the opportunity to gain experience faster than the opportunity to find themselves in risky situations with "the public" depending upon them.
The first few hundred hours of piloting experience is not so much about getting that number in the pilot logbook, but rather having had enough varying experiences that the new pilot is competent in most situations they could encounter.
As I said earlier, if a new pilot is a member of a social pilot group, and exposed to, and participates in group flying activities, some of that experience and confidence will come faster, as will its recognition. Flying clubs are great for this.
The "negativity" of very experienced pilots not offering all kinds of ideas about public service flying is very much more positive than a bad outcome because someone tried.
Yes, my negativeometer detects more than a sprinkling ! Unless the rules have changed, as a PP you can amortise the costs attached to a flight.
As a PP you cannot be paid but you can share the costs of flying. The basis of this is an agreement before flight that if, for example the total costs of the flight are £100 this amount is shared and paid equally with the pilot/owner bearing the cost of a share.
If you're sharing the a/c with three others then each will pay £25. If you are carrying something from A to B on a flight lasting one hour then each, pilot and the owner of the object being carried, pay £50 each.
Payment has to be related to cost and must not create a profit.
As a PP you cannot be paid but you can share the costs of flying. The basis of this is an agreement before flight that if, for example the total costs of the flight are £100 this amount is shared and paid equally with the pilot/owner bearing the cost of a share.
If you're sharing the a/c with three others then each will pay £25. If you are carrying something from A to B on a flight lasting one hour then each, pilot and the owner of the object being carried, pay £50 each.
Payment has to be related to cost and must not create a profit.
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Airpolice,
Does this not open a loophole? Where company X owns the plane, leases it to PPL holder who happens to be a director of company X. The plane has a rate of £200 per hour, but costs only £90 per hour to the company. Pilot holder takes 3 passengers, each paying £65 - pilot then pay the remaining £5. Company X then issues dividends of £50, hence being paid indirectly £45 profit for the hour flight?
I mean... Sure - this was always possible before, but here it makes it particularly easy and cheap!
(not advocating this practice - but thought it interesting)
Good to know we can now cost share between 6 people rather than 4 though! I'll keep that in mind when looking for new planes to fly!
Does this not open a loophole? Where company X owns the plane, leases it to PPL holder who happens to be a director of company X. The plane has a rate of £200 per hour, but costs only £90 per hour to the company. Pilot holder takes 3 passengers, each paying £65 - pilot then pay the remaining £5. Company X then issues dividends of £50, hence being paid indirectly £45 profit for the hour flight?
I mean... Sure - this was always possible before, but here it makes it particularly easy and cheap!
(not advocating this practice - but thought it interesting)
Good to know we can now cost share between 6 people rather than 4 though! I'll keep that in mind when looking for new planes to fly!