GPS - Why Not????
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I will be flying from Prestwick to Iceland, Greenland and North America in a couple of weeks. If I do not use the four GPS receivers we have on board can anyone please, please explain to me what form of navigation units I should replace them with?
QDM
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QDM:
Great reply, but all kidding aside I sometimes believe that only ESP can account for some of the luck we have had on some of our trips.
All the planning, care and experience on earth sometimes will not keep us from fuc.ing up when making decisions.
Staying alive is part training, part experience, part planning part caution and blind luck.... and possibly ESP.
Just imagine the money I could make if I offered seats for sale on some of these flights.
Cat Driver:
...................
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no.
Great reply, but all kidding aside I sometimes believe that only ESP can account for some of the luck we have had on some of our trips.
All the planning, care and experience on earth sometimes will not keep us from fuc.ing up when making decisions.
Staying alive is part training, part experience, part planning part caution and blind luck.... and possibly ESP.
Just imagine the money I could make if I offered seats for sale on some of these flights.
Cat Driver:
...................
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no.
Why do it if it's not fun?
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Chuck, that sounsd like a fun trip!
No doubt at all that GPS is extremely valuable for that kind of flight. I certainly wouldn't want to ded reckon over any large stretch of water - I've done it over the Channel, which was ok, but that's the furthest.
I have flown over the desert of eastern California, in an aircraft without GPS - not much on the ground to navigate by there, especially when vis was reduced to about 10 miles by a dust storm (although still more on the ground than when you're over the sea!) I made far more use of the VORs on that flight than I have on any other VFR flight (which accounts for almost all the flying I've done, since I don't have an IR or IMC rating yet). I'm pretty sure I'd have found a GPS very useful for that flight, too, if I'd had one.
Question - and I'm not trying to provoke an argument here, I genuinely don't know the answer. If you are navigating a long way over water, using GPS, how do you know where you are? I presume a moving map GPS will simply show a large area of sea, with a line showing your track. Would you zoom out enough to see the land too? Or would you get your distance to go off the GPS and use that to find your location on the chart? The only thing which would worry me is if you haven't thought about that, if you were just planning on flying the line the GPS tells you to fly until you reach the land. I'm certainly not suggesting that you'd do that, Chuck - in fact, I don't know of many pilots who would. I can think of one, maybe - I only flew with him once, and never again.
FFF
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No doubt at all that GPS is extremely valuable for that kind of flight. I certainly wouldn't want to ded reckon over any large stretch of water - I've done it over the Channel, which was ok, but that's the furthest.
I have flown over the desert of eastern California, in an aircraft without GPS - not much on the ground to navigate by there, especially when vis was reduced to about 10 miles by a dust storm (although still more on the ground than when you're over the sea!) I made far more use of the VORs on that flight than I have on any other VFR flight (which accounts for almost all the flying I've done, since I don't have an IR or IMC rating yet). I'm pretty sure I'd have found a GPS very useful for that flight, too, if I'd had one.
Question - and I'm not trying to provoke an argument here, I genuinely don't know the answer. If you are navigating a long way over water, using GPS, how do you know where you are? I presume a moving map GPS will simply show a large area of sea, with a line showing your track. Would you zoom out enough to see the land too? Or would you get your distance to go off the GPS and use that to find your location on the chart? The only thing which would worry me is if you haven't thought about that, if you were just planning on flying the line the GPS tells you to fly until you reach the land. I'm certainly not suggesting that you'd do that, Chuck - in fact, I don't know of many pilots who would. I can think of one, maybe - I only flew with him once, and never again.
FFF
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If you are navigating a long way over water, using GPS, how do you know where you are? I presume a moving map GPS will simply show a large area of sea, with a line showing your track. Would you zoom out enough to see the land too? Or would you get your distance to go off the GPS and use that to find your location on the chart?
QDM
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Just imagine the money I could make if I offered seats for sale on some of these flights.
You definitely would have thought so, but that French guy went bust, didn't he? The chap who was taking tourists on the old Empire Boat route to Lake Tanganyika in the eighties?
Maybe if you were going that way in any case, though, it might be worth it.
Anyway, I've got my thinking cap on and am concentrating reeeal hard.
QDM
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I use GPS to assist with my navigation every time I take off.
I program it with all the waypoints I have planned on my map. I then use it as my primary navigation instrument and cross reference it every few minutes against what is written on my paper chart. It is much simpler and easier to navigate this way. My SA remains high and I can spend more time looking out the window than at my map. This has to be a good thing.
Have had 2 GPS “failures” in the cockpit. I have used it in and out of the cockpit for over 6 years and these were the only 2 times it dropped out. One was batteries (I had the screen contrast on full instead of half and it drained the power and as a heli pilot I only have one spare hand to change them, which is not possible) the second it just dropped out. On both occasions I knew where I was and simply carried on and navigated using my map. I don’t see what the problem is here.
I really have difficulty in seeing how using a GPS is a bad thing. If people are not planning the route using a GPS with the same diligence as they do on paper and fully understand how that GPS works then they should not be in the cockpit in the first place.
It is simply another “tool” to assist you in getting safely from A to B. Understand it’s benefits but also it’s limitations and you will be fine.
I program it with all the waypoints I have planned on my map. I then use it as my primary navigation instrument and cross reference it every few minutes against what is written on my paper chart. It is much simpler and easier to navigate this way. My SA remains high and I can spend more time looking out the window than at my map. This has to be a good thing.
Have had 2 GPS “failures” in the cockpit. I have used it in and out of the cockpit for over 6 years and these were the only 2 times it dropped out. One was batteries (I had the screen contrast on full instead of half and it drained the power and as a heli pilot I only have one spare hand to change them, which is not possible) the second it just dropped out. On both occasions I knew where I was and simply carried on and navigated using my map. I don’t see what the problem is here.
I really have difficulty in seeing how using a GPS is a bad thing. If people are not planning the route using a GPS with the same diligence as they do on paper and fully understand how that GPS works then they should not be in the cockpit in the first place.
It is simply another “tool” to assist you in getting safely from A to B. Understand it’s benefits but also it’s limitations and you will be fine.
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QDM:
Yes the French guy quit, but not for lack of customers, rather it was the mind boggling bureaucracy and corruption that is prevelant throughout Africa and especially Egypt.
The PBY I am flying to the U.S.A. was in Africa with the idea of using it for Safari trips, it also was given up as a bad idea so I went back to Africa and moved it to London.
Now back to GPS and navagation.
When flying over the Ocean or large desert areas such as the Saharah we " ALWAYS " keep an ongoing written record of lat and long for situational awareness, as well I " ALWAYS " keep a updated list of nearest airports to divert to in the event of an emergency.
In fact over the Ocean I have my Anywheremap cones of safety set for drift down in the event of an engine failure to show what airports would be in range if I canno't maintain altitude due to long range fuel overweight conditions.
The Airmap 300 can be set to a scale from 1 to 4000 miles, so looking ahead for the coastlines on the moving map is a no brainer.
I strongly suggest that all pilots learn all about the use of GPS as it is without doubt the most accurate and dependable form of navigation avaliable at a price the adverage pilot can afford.
The comments by the helicopter pilot explains everything you need to know about how to use it and the added safety of using it correctly.
So do not listen to all the naysayers about GPS not being the best nav aid availabel. Anyone with that attitude couldnt pour pi.s out of their boots if the instructions were written on the soles.
Cat Driver:
..................
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no.
Yes the French guy quit, but not for lack of customers, rather it was the mind boggling bureaucracy and corruption that is prevelant throughout Africa and especially Egypt.
The PBY I am flying to the U.S.A. was in Africa with the idea of using it for Safari trips, it also was given up as a bad idea so I went back to Africa and moved it to London.
Now back to GPS and navagation.
When flying over the Ocean or large desert areas such as the Saharah we " ALWAYS " keep an ongoing written record of lat and long for situational awareness, as well I " ALWAYS " keep a updated list of nearest airports to divert to in the event of an emergency.
In fact over the Ocean I have my Anywheremap cones of safety set for drift down in the event of an engine failure to show what airports would be in range if I canno't maintain altitude due to long range fuel overweight conditions.
The Airmap 300 can be set to a scale from 1 to 4000 miles, so looking ahead for the coastlines on the moving map is a no brainer.
I strongly suggest that all pilots learn all about the use of GPS as it is without doubt the most accurate and dependable form of navigation avaliable at a price the adverage pilot can afford.
The comments by the helicopter pilot explains everything you need to know about how to use it and the added safety of using it correctly.
So do not listen to all the naysayers about GPS not being the best nav aid availabel. Anyone with that attitude couldnt pour pi.s out of their boots if the instructions were written on the soles.
Cat Driver:
..................
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no.
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Chuck my man
Good point well made.......must say that I find a lot of you techy types fall for this one......over reliance on technology, that's what it is.......in my day we were taught to use the signs that nature puts up.......or even road signs if we could get low enough to read them without crashing........
The ancient Incas were great travellers and navigators........most people don't realise that they traversed great distances with only the stars to guide them.....didn't have road signs apparently......damn shoddy of them if you ask me......well the secrets of how the Incas navigated at night in cloudy weather was thought to be lost.........not so.......on one of my expeditions to the Andes I discovered the secret of navigating in cloudy weather..........
All one needs is a Howler Monkey........simple isn't it.............as we all know the Howler Monkey always howls facing the North Star.......by some sixth sense the Howler Monkey can sense which direction the North Star is in to great accuracy.....even in total cloud.......so knowing which direction the North Star is in should enable you to navigate quite safely on your modest little jaunt........
Don't forget to pack at least 10cwt of monkey nuts and two or three bunches of bananas.......nothing more morose than a sulking Howler Monkey....
Well must fly.......TTFN
Sdn Ldr Handlebar
Great, how about flying the ferry trip with us and we will let you navigate with your equipment. However what do I do if there is no way to see the sky? ( you know about cloud cover I presume? )
The ancient Incas were great travellers and navigators........most people don't realise that they traversed great distances with only the stars to guide them.....didn't have road signs apparently......damn shoddy of them if you ask me......well the secrets of how the Incas navigated at night in cloudy weather was thought to be lost.........not so.......on one of my expeditions to the Andes I discovered the secret of navigating in cloudy weather..........
All one needs is a Howler Monkey........simple isn't it.............as we all know the Howler Monkey always howls facing the North Star.......by some sixth sense the Howler Monkey can sense which direction the North Star is in to great accuracy.....even in total cloud.......so knowing which direction the North Star is in should enable you to navigate quite safely on your modest little jaunt........
Don't forget to pack at least 10cwt of monkey nuts and two or three bunches of bananas.......nothing more morose than a sulking Howler Monkey....
Well must fly.......TTFN
Sdn Ldr Handlebar
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Good enough for the Reds
A few eons ago I was fortunate to get involved with the Red Arrows. On a visit to Scampton and whilst sitting in a hawk I asked the question on Nav as their equipment seemed 'limited'
I was shown a large patch of velcro. 'That's where we put the GPS' came the reply.
Good enough for the Reds, good enough for me!!!
I was shown a large patch of velcro. 'That's where we put the GPS' came the reply.
Good enough for the Reds, good enough for me!!!
