Night Flying Qualification
Thread Starter
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 359
Likes: 0
From: Lancashire
Night Flying Qualification
Good evening all,
Quick question. I intend to get my night qualification now I've passed my skills test. Can I get the hours required for my night qualification whilst I wait for my licence to come through, or do I have to wait until I have the piece of paper before I can start counting night hours?
Thank you
Quick question. I intend to get my night qualification now I've passed my skills test. Can I get the hours required for my night qualification whilst I wait for my licence to come through, or do I have to wait until I have the piece of paper before I can start counting night hours?
Thank you
Joined: May 1999
Aviation Qualifications: ATP+Mil
Posts: 27,401
Likes: 857
From: Quite near 'An aerodrome somewhere in England'
The required night qualification hours could have been included in the 45(?) you did to get your PPL.
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 101
Likes: 2
From: Jersey, Channel Islands
You can undertake the dual part as you will be P u/t for those hours but IMHO you cannot do the night solo full stops as you cannot exercise the privileges of your license (P1), as you do not yet have it to "physically carry" on you.
haha .. keep waiting, how long now?
whilst I wait for my licence to come through
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,113
Likes: 2
From: 23, Railway Cuttings, East Cheam
I put a licensing change application in five weeks ago and they haven't debited my credit card yet. It's ridiculous. Can't blame the one guy at the CAA who must be running the whole thing but where is all this licensing money going exactly? And then they have the cheek if you haven't provided the paperwork that they may or may not have asked for to tell you that you will be charged another fee if you don't respond within thirty days with the correct paperwork that may or may not be right depending on whether there's a 'd' in the day of the week or what phase the moon is. When I was a young man there was a programme on the wireless called the Goon Show, I can't help but see a parallel in the surrealism.
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 802
Likes: 1
From: England
But do you have to have the PPL phiscially in your hand before you undertake the night rating?
eg do a 45 hour PPL (plus test) then fly an additional 5 hours to meet the night rating requirements. Then apply for both?
eg do a 45 hour PPL (plus test) then fly an additional 5 hours to meet the night rating requirements. Then apply for both?
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 101
Likes: 2
From: Jersey, Channel Islands
But do you have to have the PPL phiscially in your hand before you undertake the night rating?
eg do a 45 hour PPL (plus test) then fly an additional 5 hours to meet the night rating requirements. Then apply for both?
Whopity here (http://www.pprune.org/flying-instruc...ml#post7504607) states:
There is nothing to prevent the Night Rating being completed prior to licence application.
Thread Starter
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 359
Likes: 0
From: Lancashire
Thank you, it's all so confuddling. I did ask if I could do the 5 hours as part of my PPL. My understanding is that this used to be doable, but they've now changed the rules, but I could be wrong
I may do the dual stuff then as hopefully the physical license will come through by the time I've done my few hours dual, though I suppose there's no guarantee. I expect I should get it by the new year, but from what I've heard about the CAA, it could be the new year of 2018 before I see it... It does seem to be a very poorly organised outfit. The DVLA, (who I admit are almost certainly much better funded) have to deal with hundreds of applications every day and get them turned around usually within a week or two. It'd be interesting to see how many applications the CAA receives in an average day. My guess would be no more than 10?
I think I'll wait for my license to physically come through before I even ask about doing the solo stuff, although again, I suppose it's only really the cross country that requires you to hold the license as the ATO will know you're able to fly solo and have passed all the tests etc? Also, I know they're very different, but with a driving license, you can use your test pass certificate as proof you hold a license until the photocard comes through. Could you, in theory, use the equivalent test pass certificates to exercise your privileges before the physical document comes through?
A lot of questions there, I hope it all makes sense. Thank you all for your input.
I may do the dual stuff then as hopefully the physical license will come through by the time I've done my few hours dual, though I suppose there's no guarantee. I expect I should get it by the new year, but from what I've heard about the CAA, it could be the new year of 2018 before I see it... It does seem to be a very poorly organised outfit. The DVLA, (who I admit are almost certainly much better funded) have to deal with hundreds of applications every day and get them turned around usually within a week or two. It'd be interesting to see how many applications the CAA receives in an average day. My guess would be no more than 10?
I think I'll wait for my license to physically come through before I even ask about doing the solo stuff, although again, I suppose it's only really the cross country that requires you to hold the license as the ATO will know you're able to fly solo and have passed all the tests etc? Also, I know they're very different, but with a driving license, you can use your test pass certificate as proof you hold a license until the photocard comes through. Could you, in theory, use the equivalent test pass certificates to exercise your privileges before the physical document comes through?
A lot of questions there, I hope it all makes sense. Thank you all for your input.
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 136
Likes: 0
From: UK
What's the rush? Apart from aerodromes which have runway lighting on seven days a week, those that don't, such as my local airfield, have night flying on Thursdays and Saturdays (or whatever days are specific to others) during the period; clocks back (end October) to clocks forward (end March).
Technically and legally you are not a licensed pilot until you have received the licence document back from the CAA and it is in your possession and therefore cannot exercise the privileges of your PPL
Technically and legally you are not a licensed pilot until you have received the licence document back from the CAA and it is in your possession and therefore cannot exercise the privileges of your PPL
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 101
Likes: 2
From: Jersey, Channel Islands
It'd be interesting to see how many applications the CAA receives in an average day
as the ATO will know you're able to fly solo
Thread Starter
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 359
Likes: 0
From: Lancashire
Technically and legally you are not a licensed pilot until you have received the licence document back from the CAA and it is in your possession and therefore cannot exercise the privileges of your PPL
GBEBZ, it would be interesting to see if they do, I hope you'll be posting the results should they come through?
Ah, I didn't realise it was his license I'd be flying on, that's understandable then.
I would like to take this opportunity to apologise to you all in advance, as I will probably be posting a few questions over the coming weeks and months regarding various different topics of the PPL.
Thanks
T
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,113
Likes: 2
From: 23, Railway Cuttings, East Cheam
Technically and legally you are not a licensed pilot until you have received the licence document back from the CAA and it is in your possession and therefore cannot exercise the privileges of your PPL
) need the license in your possession.
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 1,102
Likes: 0
From: E Anglia
Hang on a bit:
If an instructor can send a student training for his PPL off solo based on privileges of FI licence, prior to issue of stude's PPL , why can't a Night Rating instructor send off a Night rating student solo based on the same privileges?
If an instructor can send a student training for his PPL off solo based on privileges of FI licence, prior to issue of stude's PPL , why can't a Night Rating instructor send off a Night rating student solo based on the same privileges?
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 442
Likes: 0
From: London
I was under the impression that it didn't matter if you had a licence or not.
But your licence does not allow you to fly at night as it does not already have a night rating issued, and printed on the licence itself. Therefore what you are stating is irrelevant. You are not exercising the privileges of your licence, as your licence does not allow you to fly at night.
P1 in the logbook. You are required to have a certain number of "Supervised Solo" hours for the issue of your PPL, I have logged all these hours as P1. The fact that it is your instructor who is "signing you out" is completely irrelevant. You are the only person in the plane, hence the PIC (as there is no-one else in the plane), hence you log P1 hours. Not sure how anyone can see any confusion on this.
I think 5 weeks is a very long time. By the time you get the licence through you may not be current anymore!! Continual learning in my mind should always be praised.
I know for a fact that 2 years ago you were able to complete the night rating at the same time as the PPL. If that has changed since - I do not know, but I haven't read any CAA document stating this change.
The night rating is incredible, its a magical experience, and you should definitely go for it and do it. However, because it is somewhat difficult to see clouds at night - getting yourself in IMC is just that much easier. I would strongly recommend doing some basic instrument work with an instructor, as this will help you achieve your night rating in the minimum hours. As the UK has temperamental weather and if finding a suitable time (both airfield, instructor and your availability) to complete your night rating is required, all the more important to maximise night hours as much as possible.
Well - that's why the forum exists! Welcome to the community!
but IMHO you cannot do the night solo full stops as you cannot exercise the privileges of your license (P1), as you do not yet have it to "physically carry" on you
P1 in the logbook. You are required to have a certain number of "Supervised Solo" hours for the issue of your PPL, I have logged all these hours as P1. The fact that it is your instructor who is "signing you out" is completely irrelevant. You are the only person in the plane, hence the PIC (as there is no-one else in the plane), hence you log P1 hours. Not sure how anyone can see any confusion on this.
What's the rush?
I know for a fact that 2 years ago you were able to complete the night rating at the same time as the PPL. If that has changed since - I do not know, but I haven't read any CAA document stating this change.
The night rating is incredible, its a magical experience, and you should definitely go for it and do it. However, because it is somewhat difficult to see clouds at night - getting yourself in IMC is just that much easier. I would strongly recommend doing some basic instrument work with an instructor, as this will help you achieve your night rating in the minimum hours. As the UK has temperamental weather and if finding a suitable time (both airfield, instructor and your availability) to complete your night rating is required, all the more important to maximise night hours as much as possible.
I would like to take this opportunity to apologise to you all in advance, as I will probably be posting a few questions over the coming weeks and months regarding various different topics of the PPL.
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 442
Likes: 0
From: London
Also - might be worth chasing the application. I am sure that you have sent your logbook using a signed for delivery, has the delivery been made?
I would strongly recommend calling them ASAP to make sure that they have received your application, and that it will be processed. 5 weeks seem abnormally long to get your licence issued. Although this may have something to do with recent changes in legislation regarding the issue of licences.
Best to call them to get an update, and maybe even a time-frame with regards to licence issue.
I would strongly recommend calling them ASAP to make sure that they have received your application, and that it will be processed. 5 weeks seem abnormally long to get your licence issued. Although this may have something to do with recent changes in legislation regarding the issue of licences.
Best to call them to get an update, and maybe even a time-frame with regards to licence issue.
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 52
Likes: 0
From: The Wild Blue Yonder
Tobster,
Yes you can. CAA were changing over to the new licence 2 or 3 years ago when I did mine, and it was taking months not weeks to get licences processed. Not wanting to wait all that time, and then wait again for them to process my Night Qual, I did my night training straight after and sent all the paperwork off at once. Majority of my flying for the first few months were night flying.
TPP
Yes you can. CAA were changing over to the new licence 2 or 3 years ago when I did mine, and it was taking months not weeks to get licences processed. Not wanting to wait all that time, and then wait again for them to process my Night Qual, I did my night training straight after and sent all the paperwork off at once. Majority of my flying for the first few months were night flying.
TPP
Thread Starter
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 359
Likes: 0
From: Lancashire
Thank you everyone. I haven't sent it all off yet as I am going to do my RT exam before I send it so I can do both at once. RT exam is booked for the 22nd, and should be OK to do with no problems (based on the practices I've done). I'll have a chat with the instructor to see what he reckons, but as you say, it makes sense to send it all off at once if possible. I'll certainly do some instrument work too, as this is another rating I'd quite like, though I'll start with the IMC due to limited funds.
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 442
Likes: 0
From: London
Oh - so you did your GFT before passing the RT exam? Interesting! I think I did my RT just before my first solo cross country. I think the ATO wouldn't let people sit the test unless they had all the pre-requisites.
Just so you know - although yes you can get the night rating added at the same time as your PPL is issued, you will however, still require to pay for the issuance of the individual rating.
For the IMC rating - I believe that you need 25 hours POST PPL issue logged before you can get your rating issued. The IMC course can count towards that requirement, and the course is 15 hours minimum before you can do the IMC test. (just for information)
Have fun night flying!!
Just so you know - although yes you can get the night rating added at the same time as your PPL is issued, you will however, still require to pay for the issuance of the individual rating.
For the IMC rating - I believe that you need 25 hours POST PPL issue logged before you can get your rating issued. The IMC course can count towards that requirement, and the course is 15 hours minimum before you can do the IMC test. (just for information)
Have fun night flying!!
Thread Starter
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 359
Likes: 0
From: Lancashire
@alex90 I know about the fees, which although are a pain, they're fine. I didn't know that you could count IMC training hours towards the logged hours, so that's useful to know, save me some wonga.
Thank you, I will
Thank you, I will
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 2,524
Likes: 1
From: United Kingdom
Oh - so you did your GFT before passing the RT exam? Interesting! I think I did my RT just before my first solo cross country. I think the ATO wouldn't let people sit the test unless they had all the pre-requisites.