Your route to Deauville
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Your route to Deauville
I'm planning to fly from Blackbushe to Deauville this Sunday for the first time, although I have flown to Le Touquet and Cherbourg before.
I'm keen to know the route you take to Deauville:
'Straight across', which looks the shortest,
going via the 'short channel hop' from Lydd which is very long,
going via the IOW and Cherbourg which is also very long,
or some other route?
Also, do you take a liferaft when you cross the channel, and where could I borrow/rent one at a reasonable rate?
I'm keen to know the route you take to Deauville:
'Straight across', which looks the shortest,
going via the 'short channel hop' from Lydd which is very long,
going via the IOW and Cherbourg which is also very long,
or some other route?
Also, do you take a liferaft when you cross the channel, and where could I borrow/rent one at a reasonable rate?
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If you take the direct IoW - Cherbourg routing remember there is nothing (except wx) to stop you climbing to 9 or 10,000' which will give you a MUCH better glide range if all goes quiet, in fact you would probably make land even from the middle!
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There's some new restricted/prohibited airspace on the Cherbourg peninsular due to some nuclear facility which the French are very keen to enforce, so watch out for that if you go that way.
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There isn't much in it timewise, and being of a cowardly disposition, I usually fly LYD - DPE with a kink towards the French coast. Just about doable with gliding range to land most of the way.
Deauville has a wonderful reporting point based on a bridge over a river. Would be great, were it not for all the bridges over all the rivers in the neighbourhood.
The good news is that ATC will have you on radar so can tell you when you're at the bridge where you're supposed to call.
Deauville has a wonderful reporting point based on a bridge over a river. Would be great, were it not for all the bridges over all the rivers in the neighbourhood.
The good news is that ATC will have you on radar so can tell you when you're at the bridge where you're supposed to call.
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Just a point on gliding range - my little girl (a C150) glides at about 1 in 5 which works out at about 1 mile per 1000 ft. So depending on where you are when it all goes quite, even if you're up at FL75 you've still got a fair amount of swimming to do before you reach land. 
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RR
I would check your figures, I think if you turn finals at 1000' and 1ml on a glide approach you will overshoot the field - even putting down a couple of stages of flap (I would say full flap if it was not a C150!)
most a/c will get about 3miles/1000' in the glide, IoW - France is about 50 nml which means you SHOULD be able to swim ashore from about 8,000' if you lose it in the middle and turn to get a tailwind. 
I would check your figures, I think if you turn finals at 1000' and 1ml on a glide approach you will overshoot the field - even putting down a couple of stages of flap (I would say full flap if it was not a C150!)
most a/c will get about 3miles/1000' in the glide, IoW - France is about 50 nml which means you SHOULD be able to swim ashore from about 8,000' if you lose it in the middle and turn to get a tailwind.
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I'll give it a go next time I'm up, but I'm pretty sure that with an practice engine failure and trimmed for the best glide distance (60 kts) the decent rate was much more than 330 ft/min.
I've just had a rummage on the Internet and I've found a site which quotes a Glide Ratio (prop windmilling, Flaps up) of 8.4:1 or 1.4 MN/1000 ft
I've just had a rummage on the Internet and I've found a site which quotes a Glide Ratio (prop windmilling, Flaps up) of 8.4:1 or 1.4 MN/1000 ft
Last edited by Romeo Romeo; 2nd Jul 2002 at 21:22.
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Went to deauville last weekend direct from Shoreham, ATC speak brilliant English, the airport is really good. We went by taxi to Honfleur without accomadation booked :-(
£20 taxi into town,out of town, back in for a night out! back to B&B and back to airport next morning, £100. We planned the flight ok but not the overnight stay. Accomadation only a problem at weekends.
Departed Deauville sunday morning coasted out at 1000' to stay under cloud, how good is the panic button (radio) at that height? would we have been better illegally imc?
£20 taxi into town,out of town, back in for a night out! back to B&B and back to airport next morning, £100. We planned the flight ok but not the overnight stay. Accomadation only a problem at weekends.
Departed Deauville sunday morning coasted out at 1000' to stay under cloud, how good is the panic button (radio) at that height? would we have been better illegally imc?
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RR
on YOUR figures, 330'/min = 3 mins for 1000', 60 kts = 1nm/min,
therefore 8,000' = 24nmls, as I said 25 miles is mid channel, and if you turn to put the wind behind you you should make it with a mile or two to spare! Add on the 1,000' or 2000' you can fly at (quarantal rule recommended on this route), and you may even reach Sandown or Cherbourg airfield, this is of course WORST case with all going suddenly quiet at mid channel.
avard
depends on your capabilities and the wx the other end, if you could pop through a VERY thin layer of cloud to be on top and knew the wx was ok at the other end this MAY have been a better option. If not, and you are not current IMC you could have ended up making a BIG hole in the water!!
on YOUR figures, 330'/min = 3 mins for 1000', 60 kts = 1nm/min,
therefore 8,000' = 24nmls, as I said 25 miles is mid channel, and if you turn to put the wind behind you you should make it with a mile or two to spare! Add on the 1,000' or 2000' you can fly at (quarantal rule recommended on this route), and you may even reach Sandown or Cherbourg airfield, this is of course WORST case with all going suddenly quiet at mid channel.
avard
depends on your capabilities and the wx the other end, if you could pop through a VERY thin layer of cloud to be on top and knew the wx was ok at the other end this MAY have been a better option. If not, and you are not current IMC you could have ended up making a BIG hole in the water!!
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Yes Foxmoth, that's what I'm saying. To get 3 miles / 1000ft you would need a decent rate of 300ft/min and it is MUCH more than that - it's more like 800ft/min. One flying school reckons 1.4 miles / 1000 ft which I wouldn't disagree with, which means 7000ft will get you about 10 miles. I suppose the best way to get the exact figures is to give it a go. Next time you're up, put the engine to idle, trim for the best glide angle and see how long it takes to go down 1000 ft.
Whenever I go across the Channel (and I've done both the short hop to Cap Gris-Nez and the long one from Alderney) or over to Ireland I always carry a liferaft.
Avard, I can't remember the formula for the range of VHF radio with height (it in the Thom IMC book), but it's something like 1.2 * sqrt(height in feet/20), which works out at about 10 miles at 1000 ft.
Jayemm, if you do decide to go the Cherbourg route be aware of the restricted zones (and check this yourself using an official source, don't rely on me!). This is from the Flyer site.
Whenever I go across the Channel (and I've done both the short hop to Cap Gris-Nez and the long one from Alderney) or over to Ireland I always carry a liferaft.
Avard, I can't remember the formula for the range of VHF radio with height (it in the Thom IMC book), but it's something like 1.2 * sqrt(height in feet/20), which works out at about 10 miles at 1000 ft.
Jayemm, if you do decide to go the Cherbourg route be aware of the restricted zones (and check this yourself using an official source, don't rely on me!). This is from the Flyer site.
France eases up on Cap de la Hague
Last October we reported that the French authorities had instigated a prohibited area and a restricted area around the Cap de la Hague nuclear processing plant on the Cherbourg peninsula.
Recently, the authorities have eased the regulations surrounding the restricted area. Previously entry into the area had required 48 hour notice and was available only to aircraft based in Guernsey, Alderney or Cherbourg. Now the restricted area is available to all aircraft, subject to flightplan filing with NOTAMed addresses and "DIC LH22" in item 18, one hour's prior notice and compulsory radio contact ten minutes before entry into with Cabillaud Radar (which is now on 127.57, previously 122.15).
Infringing either the restricted area (30km radius from Cap de la Hague, up to 5000ft) or prohibited area (10km radius based on Cap de la Hague, up to FL70) is regarded as a serious offence by the authorities, who threaten heavy penalties, imprisonment and forfeiture of the aircraft.
Please check the NOTAMs before flying, and make sure that you're legal.
Last October we reported that the French authorities had instigated a prohibited area and a restricted area around the Cap de la Hague nuclear processing plant on the Cherbourg peninsula.
Recently, the authorities have eased the regulations surrounding the restricted area. Previously entry into the area had required 48 hour notice and was available only to aircraft based in Guernsey, Alderney or Cherbourg. Now the restricted area is available to all aircraft, subject to flightplan filing with NOTAMed addresses and "DIC LH22" in item 18, one hour's prior notice and compulsory radio contact ten minutes before entry into with Cabillaud Radar (which is now on 127.57, previously 122.15).
Infringing either the restricted area (30km radius from Cap de la Hague, up to 5000ft) or prohibited area (10km radius based on Cap de la Hague, up to FL70) is regarded as a serious offence by the authorities, who threaten heavy penalties, imprisonment and forfeiture of the aircraft.
Please check the NOTAMs before flying, and make sure that you're legal.
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Thanks for the info on routes to Deauville and the bonus of a discourse on glide distances.
Only RR mentioned the liferaft - is it yours, or do you hire it?
I'm interested in others' views on liferafts across the channel, and if you use them, where you get them!
Avard, what was the aircraft you flew Shoreham to Deauville?
Only RR mentioned the liferaft - is it yours, or do you hire it?
I'm interested in others' views on liferafts across the channel, and if you use them, where you get them!
Avard, what was the aircraft you flew Shoreham to Deauville?
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probably a bit late and Slightly off the subject but firstly a liferaft and l.jackets a must surely? usually available from your flying club.
but when you're their take time to get a taxi to honfleur a truly beautiful place enjoy.
Also max range of vhf is: sqr of height of transmitter + sqr of height of A/C x 1.25
but when you're their take time to get a taxi to honfleur a truly beautiful place enjoy.
Also max range of vhf is: sqr of height of transmitter + sqr of height of A/C x 1.25
Last edited by incipientspin; 3rd Jul 2002 at 16:20.
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I bought my liferaft. It's a PAL2 - a two person one make by Parmaris. It cost about £650 when I got it a couple of years ago and I think I got it from AFE although you might be able to get it direct - here's the link http://www.inflatable-lifejackets.co...fejackets.html. It weights about 10kg, which in my C150 does cut down the amount of fuel available by about 3 gallons (just over half an hour's range), but I think it's well worth it. I don't like the thought of a single failure (the engine) causing me to end up bobbing around in the channel hoping that someone will find me before I die of hypothermia!
I'm not too sure where you can hire them from - but as incipientspin says, your flying club (or a flying club at one of the airfields close to the channel) would be a good starting place.
Thanks for the formula - I was close in a completely wrong sort of way
I'm not too sure where you can hire them from - but as incipientspin says, your flying club (or a flying club at one of the airfields close to the channel) would be a good starting place.
Thanks for the formula - I was close in a completely wrong sort of way
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jayemm
we went in a PA28, got IMC but din't fancy being in it not being able to understand french traffic,and also a bit unsure if ATC asked height, do you tell a porkie or chance a bollocking for being IMC though i've never heard ATC ask a pilot if they are licenced to fly IMC. 1000' above the water is legal but stupid,IMC in France is illegal but safe?
life rafts play havoc with the weight and balance, e.g. her in doors will have to stay in doors. Bit of a worry if have to ditch,would they find you before frost bite or a octopus gives you a nasty suck?
i used to be indecisive but now i'm not so sure
Honfleur is the dogs,apart from taxi, top fishy resturants and proper old buildings makes Yorks' shambles look like a shamble?
we went in a PA28, got IMC but din't fancy being in it not being able to understand french traffic,and also a bit unsure if ATC asked height, do you tell a porkie or chance a bollocking for being IMC though i've never heard ATC ask a pilot if they are licenced to fly IMC. 1000' above the water is legal but stupid,IMC in France is illegal but safe?
life rafts play havoc with the weight and balance, e.g. her in doors will have to stay in doors. Bit of a worry if have to ditch,would they find you before frost bite or a octopus gives you a nasty suck?
i used to be indecisive but now i'm not so sure
Honfleur is the dogs,apart from taxi, top fishy resturants and proper old buildings makes Yorks' shambles look like a shamble?
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DRAKE and SITET are based on Airway A34 which goes from MID to Deauville (DVL). If you follow this routing you keep clear of the big scary danger area mid-channel.
DRAKE MID163R/55d N5012.5 W00004.5
SITET DVL350R/49d N5006.0 W00000.0
Hope this helps.
sB
DRAKE MID163R/55d N5012.5 W00004.5
SITET DVL350R/49d N5006.0 W00000.0
Hope this helps.
sB
