Difference between IMC and IR?
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 3,648
Likes: 2
From: UK
N Reg Aztec
I would think you do. The point that I was trying to emphasise is that if you don't get an IMC rating, the FAA IR does not give you privileges to fly IFR in classes D and E.
aztec25
The notification "for the purposes of Schedule 8" disappeared at least 6 (yes, count them, six) years ago. If you read Schedule 8 of the ANO you'll find it makes no mention of that any more. That FCL have not got round to updating the GID beggars belief. Paragraphs (c) and (d) are hopelessly outdated. In fact if you look at the whole section of the GID it's typographical mayhem!
"(f) Subject to paragraph (f), in..."
englishal
Sorry, can't help. I've never been through the process of getting an IMC rating based on a foreign IR.
If I apply to the CAA for an IMC rating do I need a JAR PPL to begin with - surely they can't just give you a rating with no license to add it to?
aztec25
Not sure whether all the info posted here is accurate. I believe you can use an IMC rating in IMC conditions in some Class D airspace provided the Class D has not been notified for Schedule 8. eg Liverpool, Newcastle.
"(f) Subject to paragraph (f), in..."
englishal
Sorry, can't help. I've never been through the process of getting an IMC rating based on a foreign IR.
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 4,729
Likes: 0
From: 75N 16E
A bit about airspace
US airspace system has it sorted.....Quick refresher for those who don't know:
UK A = US B (Most busy airports, LAX, SFO, LHR etc)
UK D = US C (Less busy, but still major airports, SNA, EGHH etc)
UK B = US A (>FL180 in US, > FL245 in UK)
However in the US, most class C areas have a ceiling of around 5000' and most class B areas have a ceiling of 10000' MSL, and combined with this there are often VFR corridors allowing a VFR pilot to 'just fly through' without contacting ATC. Example of this is the LAX VFR corridor, a VFR pilot can sqwark 1201, and head straight through the corridor, directly overhead LAX. Same is true of the class C airports, which although are designated 'less busy' are still VERY busy. Example again is John Wayne (SNA) airport in Orange county, which is probably as busy as Gatwick. Climb to 5001' (I believe, haven't got my chart here) and you can cut straight across the top. One big difference in the US is the use of transponders. To be able to do what I have just described, you need to have a mode C transponder operating (theoretically).
Still there's no reason why IMC rated pilots shouldn't be allowed into airways in the UK, especially if they either have operational mode-c or restricted to a certain FL...
Cheers
EA
UK A = US B (Most busy airports, LAX, SFO, LHR etc)
UK D = US C (Less busy, but still major airports, SNA, EGHH etc)
UK B = US A (>FL180 in US, > FL245 in UK)
However in the US, most class C areas have a ceiling of around 5000' and most class B areas have a ceiling of 10000' MSL, and combined with this there are often VFR corridors allowing a VFR pilot to 'just fly through' without contacting ATC. Example of this is the LAX VFR corridor, a VFR pilot can sqwark 1201, and head straight through the corridor, directly overhead LAX. Same is true of the class C airports, which although are designated 'less busy' are still VERY busy. Example again is John Wayne (SNA) airport in Orange county, which is probably as busy as Gatwick. Climb to 5001' (I believe, haven't got my chart here) and you can cut straight across the top. One big difference in the US is the use of transponders. To be able to do what I have just described, you need to have a mode C transponder operating (theoretically).
Still there's no reason why IMC rated pilots shouldn't be allowed into airways in the UK, especially if they either have operational mode-c or restricted to a certain FL...
Cheers
EA
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 39
Likes: 0
From: England
Lots about what you can legally do with an IMC vs IR, but what in reality does an IR include training wise that an IMC doesn't, apart obviously for airways related work?
It seems to me reading the various threads of the "IMC's are crap, oh no they are not, oh yes they are" variety that the training for, and examination of, IMC ratings depends very much on where it was done. All this talk of 15 basic hours is a bit strange to me. When I did mine it took longer (not because I was crap, but because the school said from the outset it would!). The examination tolerances were +/- 50 ft, 5knots and 5degrees. It also include full proceedural let downs, both ILS and NDB as well as a "mock" SIDS and STARS. The only thing I can think of that it did not include that I have subsequently had to discover is the DME Arc. Perhaps I just went to the wrong flight school?
It seems to me reading the various threads of the "IMC's are crap, oh no they are not, oh yes they are" variety that the training for, and examination of, IMC ratings depends very much on where it was done. All this talk of 15 basic hours is a bit strange to me. When I did mine it took longer (not because I was crap, but because the school said from the outset it would!). The examination tolerances were +/- 50 ft, 5knots and 5degrees. It also include full proceedural let downs, both ILS and NDB as well as a "mock" SIDS and STARS. The only thing I can think of that it did not include that I have subsequently had to discover is the DME Arc. Perhaps I just went to the wrong flight school?
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 99
Likes: 0
From: Hampshire, UK
Is there a difference between an IMC rating as applied to a UK PPL(A) and as applied to a JAR-FCL PPL(A)??
My copy of the UK AIM which includes Schedule 8 of the ANO seems to be very clear on what an IMC does for a UK PPL(A) but has two contradictory views on what an IMC does for a JAR-FCL PPL(A). Read one way it seems to suggest that an IMC rating with a JAR-FCL allows you to fly in IMC *ONLY* in class D/E airspace - and not outside controlled airspace.
Maybe I am just reading this wrong, but the confusion seems to be in "Part B, Ratings".
My copy of the UK AIM which includes Schedule 8 of the ANO seems to be very clear on what an IMC does for a UK PPL(A) but has two contradictory views on what an IMC does for a JAR-FCL PPL(A). Read one way it seems to suggest that an IMC rating with a JAR-FCL allows you to fly in IMC *ONLY* in class D/E airspace - and not outside controlled airspace.
Maybe I am just reading this wrong, but the confusion seems to be in "Part B, Ratings".
