Safety Pilots
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Joined: Nov 2001
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From: UK
Safety Pilots
My husband has just renewed his Class 2 medical, but has to fly with a safety pilot. No problem, we always fly together anyway.
BUT .... my medical is due in August (and I'm no spring chicken!) so, what happens if I too have to fly with a Safety Pilot??
The CAA says:
"A safety pilot is a pilot who is current and qualified to act as Pilot In Command (PIC) on the class/type of aeroplane and carried on board the aeroplane for the purpose of taking over control should the person acting as the PIC become incapacitated."
So can we be safety pilots for each other??
Prunie
BUT .... my medical is due in August (and I'm no spring chicken!) so, what happens if I too have to fly with a Safety Pilot??
The CAA says:
"A safety pilot is a pilot who is current and qualified to act as Pilot In Command (PIC) on the class/type of aeroplane and carried on board the aeroplane for the purpose of taking over control should the person acting as the PIC become incapacitated."
So can we be safety pilots for each other??
Prunie
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2001
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From: UK
Yes, Insurance was one of my worries!
But it seems to me we should be OK because the probability of us BOTH keeling over at the same time is considerably lower than the prob of just one of us doing so.
But it seems to me we should be OK because the probability of us BOTH keeling over at the same time is considerably lower than the prob of just one of us doing so.
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In the legal definition, "safety pilot" is just that. So long as he/she is licensed/current, all should be good.
You have more chances of your prop falling off than both pilots simultaneously keeling over. Insurance co will verify.
You have more chances of your prop falling off than both pilots simultaneously keeling over. Insurance co will verify.
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From: UK
But the situation Wide-Body is describing is one where both pilots are normally required to safely operate the aircraft, and also where farepaying passengers are being protected. I don't think that this is a correct parallel to two qualified pilots flying together for recreational purposes only.
G
G
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From: Uk
I wonder since when did Insurance Companies became involved in deciding regulation? Apart from using it to avoid payments...
I would suggest having a look at the CAA Safety Pilot Information Sheet and particularly the extract below:
WHAT IS AN OPERATIONAL SAFETY PILOT LIMITATION (OSL)?
This limitation is added to a medical certificate when a pilot is considered to be at increased risk of incapacitation compared to his/her peer group. The holder of the medical certificate is precluded from solo flying and always has to fly with a safety pilot
Now put yourself in the place of a regulator being asked the question, can 2 safety pilots fly together?
As neither here are allowed to fly solo, and always have to fly with a safety pilot, how can either one comply with this regulation in the case of the other becoming incapacitated?
IMO, therefore, the answer has to be No.
The correct course of action must be to ask the CAA and, if by some chance they allow it, keep a written record of their answer in case of later problems with Insurers.
I would suggest having a look at the CAA Safety Pilot Information Sheet and particularly the extract below:
WHAT IS AN OPERATIONAL SAFETY PILOT LIMITATION (OSL)?
This limitation is added to a medical certificate when a pilot is considered to be at increased risk of incapacitation compared to his/her peer group. The holder of the medical certificate is precluded from solo flying and always has to fly with a safety pilot
Now put yourself in the place of a regulator being asked the question, can 2 safety pilots fly together?
As neither here are allowed to fly solo, and always have to fly with a safety pilot, how can either one comply with this regulation in the case of the other becoming incapacitated?
IMO, therefore, the answer has to be No.
The correct course of action must be to ask the CAA and, if by some chance they allow it, keep a written record of their answer in case of later problems with Insurers.
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2001
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From: UK
3wheels you say "....As neither here are allowed to fly solo, and always have to fly with a safety pilot, how can either one comply with this regulation in the case of the other becoming incapacitated?...."
But the same situation would occur if the Safety Pilot was incapacitated ....
But the same situation would occur if the Safety Pilot was incapacitated ....
Joined: Jan 2016
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From: Uk
But the same situation would occur if the Safety Pilot was incapacitated ....
However, you are looking at in an increased risk, however small, which does not appear to be covered by the current published CAA criteria.
As I said, the correct course of action is to ask for an opinion from the CAA as to whether it is permitted to have two pilots flying together who both require safety pilots.
Only they, not an Insurance company, can give you the definitive answer.
Last edited by 3wheels; 23rd May 2016 at 23:14.
Joined: Oct 2004
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From: UK
The answer lies in the statement
If you were only qualified to operate with another pilot, then you are not qualified to act as PIC in a SPA!
"A safety pilot is a pilot who is current and qualified to act as Pilot In Command (PIC) on the class/type of aeroplane and carried on board the aeroplane for the purpose of taking over control should the person acting as the PIC become incapacitated."
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What happens when the need for a Class II for PPL disappears this summer? Unless you are commercial or performing aerobatics, that is. Can you both self-certificate according to the CAA form (internet based)? If so and under 70 then that's it until you are 70. [If over 70 then you need to self-certificate every 3 years]
That's how I read it, anyway. Now waiting for the Air Navigation Order 2016 to be published.
That's how I read it, anyway. Now waiting for the Air Navigation Order 2016 to be published.
Thread Starter
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From: UK
Whopity said "if you were only QUALIFIED to operate with another pilot..."
Well my hubby is QUALIFIED, he has all his QUALIFICATIONS. He just has a medical which requires a safety pilot in case of illness.
Well my hubby is QUALIFIED, he has all his QUALIFICATIONS. He just has a medical which requires a safety pilot in case of illness.
Joined: Aug 2000
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From: uk
Prunie,
May I suggest that you delay your August medical until the new CAA regulation comes out in September. Then you can self declare under the new rules without any known medical issues and carry on as normal. As I understand it you will not be able to do this if your medical shows up any problems. Obviously, if you do pass your medical in August you will be able to self declare as long as you deem yourself to be fit.
May I suggest that you delay your August medical until the new CAA regulation comes out in September. Then you can self declare under the new rules without any known medical issues and carry on as normal. As I understand it you will not be able to do this if your medical shows up any problems. Obviously, if you do pass your medical in August you will be able to self declare as long as you deem yourself to be fit.
Joined: Oct 2004
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From: UK
But the new rules will only apply to National Licenses and not JAA/EASA licences, so will only apply to a few pilots!
Which means if his safety pilot conked out, he would not be qualified to be PIC!
He just has a medical which requires a safety pilot in case of illness.