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Safety Pilots

Old 23rd May 2016, 00:17
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Safety Pilots

My husband has just renewed his Class 2 medical, but has to fly with a safety pilot. No problem, we always fly together anyway.

BUT .... my medical is due in August (and I'm no spring chicken!) so, what happens if I too have to fly with a Safety Pilot??

The CAA says:

"A safety pilot is a pilot who is current and qualified to act as Pilot In Command (PIC) on the class/type of aeroplane and carried on board the aeroplane for the purpose of taking over control should the person acting as the PIC become incapacitated."

So can we be safety pilots for each other??

Prunie
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Old 23rd May 2016, 08:24
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I suspect that nobody has asked that question before, and that it may not be in your interests to ask it officially.

G
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Old 23rd May 2016, 09:22
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Well, that's all well and good until the Insurance claim - best ask the question!
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Old 23rd May 2016, 09:43
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Yes, Insurance was one of my worries!

But it seems to me we should be OK because the probability of us BOTH keeling over at the same time is considerably lower than the prob of just one of us doing so.
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Old 23rd May 2016, 10:13
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or the fact that if you both keel over at the same time, insurance will be the least of your problems
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Old 23rd May 2016, 11:46
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In the legal definition, "safety pilot" is just that. So long as he/she is licensed/current, all should be good.

You have more chances of your prop falling off than both pilots simultaneously keeling over. Insurance co will verify.
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Old 23rd May 2016, 11:58
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I do not know the answer from the private world. However commercially if one pilot has an OML (restriction to fly with another pilot) then the other pilot MUST NOT be so restricted.
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Old 23rd May 2016, 12:09
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Ah, interesting. I would think it is relevant.

If so there is only one answer - pass my medical with flying colours!
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Old 23rd May 2016, 12:16
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But the situation Wide-Body is describing is one where both pilots are normally required to safely operate the aircraft, and also where farepaying passengers are being protected. I don't think that this is a correct parallel to two qualified pilots flying together for recreational purposes only.

G
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Old 23rd May 2016, 12:32
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I imagine that the occasion of 2 PPLs needing safety pilots doesn't come up very often.

So I assumed the CAA would try to apply one principle across the board.
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Old 23rd May 2016, 13:14
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Take George as well, just to be on the safe side.

Good luck with your medical. Hopefully your question will be irrelevant to your circumstances.
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Old 23rd May 2016, 13:58
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I wonder since when did Insurance Companies became involved in deciding regulation? Apart from using it to avoid payments...

I would suggest having a look at the CAA Safety Pilot Information Sheet and particularly the extract below:

WHAT IS AN OPERATIONAL SAFETY PILOT LIMITATION (OSL)?
This limitation is added to a medical certificate when a pilot is considered to be at increased risk of incapacitation compared to his/her peer group. The holder of the medical certificate is precluded from solo flying and always has to fly with a safety pilot


Now put yourself in the place of a regulator being asked the question, can 2 safety pilots fly together?

As neither here are allowed to fly solo, and always have to fly with a safety pilot, how can either one comply with this regulation in the case of the other becoming incapacitated?

IMO, therefore, the answer has to be No.

The correct course of action must be to ask the CAA and, if by some chance they allow it, keep a written record of their answer in case of later problems with Insurers.
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Old 23rd May 2016, 20:05
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3wheels you say "....As neither here are allowed to fly solo, and always have to fly with a safety pilot, how can either one comply with this regulation in the case of the other becoming incapacitated?...."

But the same situation would occur if the Safety Pilot was incapacitated ....
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Old 23rd May 2016, 23:02
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But the same situation would occur if the Safety Pilot was incapacitated ....
Maybe so...

However, you are looking at in an increased risk, however small, which does not appear to be covered by the current published CAA criteria.

As I said, the correct course of action is to ask for an opinion from the CAA as to whether it is permitted to have two pilots flying together who both require safety pilots.

Only they, not an Insurance company, can give you the definitive answer.

Last edited by 3wheels; 23rd May 2016 at 23:14.
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Old 24th May 2016, 10:51
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You're right, of course but meantime I'll just try to keep as fit as possible so I pass my medical.
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Old 24th May 2016, 11:53
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The answer lies in the statement
"A safety pilot is a pilot who is current and qualified to act as Pilot In Command (PIC) on the class/type of aeroplane and carried on board the aeroplane for the purpose of taking over control should the person acting as the PIC become incapacitated."
If you were only qualified to operate with another pilot, then you are not qualified to act as PIC in a SPA!
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Old 24th May 2016, 12:30
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What happens when the need for a Class II for PPL disappears this summer? Unless you are commercial or performing aerobatics, that is. Can you both self-certificate according to the CAA form (internet based)? If so and under 70 then that's it until you are 70. [If over 70 then you need to self-certificate every 3 years]


That's how I read it, anyway. Now waiting for the Air Navigation Order 2016 to be published.
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Old 24th May 2016, 15:26
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Whopity said "if you were only QUALIFIED to operate with another pilot..."

Well my hubby is QUALIFIED, he has all his QUALIFICATIONS. He just has a medical which requires a safety pilot in case of illness.
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Old 24th May 2016, 16:19
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Prunie,

May I suggest that you delay your August medical until the new CAA regulation comes out in September. Then you can self declare under the new rules without any known medical issues and carry on as normal. As I understand it you will not be able to do this if your medical shows up any problems. Obviously, if you do pass your medical in August you will be able to self declare as long as you deem yourself to be fit.
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Old 24th May 2016, 17:26
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But the new rules will only apply to National Licenses and not JAA/EASA licences, so will only apply to a few pilots!
He just has a medical which requires a safety pilot in case of illness.
Which means if his safety pilot conked out, he would not be qualified to be PIC!
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