Restricted Instrument Rating Questions
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As Elstree approaches in IMC figures as an underlying question in this thread might it still be worth remembering even after 40 years how it can be got wrong? As an aside, I think there used to be a local rumour that the radio masts mentioned in this report could in some way be used as a beacon (via ADF??)?
Once ended up catching the train from Southend myself, but had an instructor onboard to impart the wisdom of that decision! Wisdom like that doesn't always come to the fore so easily when you are on your own ...
Also the Appendices to the AAIB report might also visually illustrate some of the problems of negotiating Elstree local terrain under low cloud.
One or more of the PPRuNe threads on that particular accident are of course also worth a read.
Once ended up catching the train from Southend myself, but had an instructor onboard to impart the wisdom of that decision! Wisdom like that doesn't always come to the fore so easily when you are on your own ...
Also the Appendices to the AAIB report might also visually illustrate some of the problems of negotiating Elstree local terrain under low cloud.
One or more of the PPRuNe threads on that particular accident are of course also worth a read.
Last edited by slip and turn; 27th Sep 2015 at 13:23.
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Hmm a little grim on the topic of IMC flying courses... But poignant learning point I guess!
I think that flight was doomed from the moment the pilot considered attempting to "have a look" at Elstree when the reported visibility was only 800m on the ground. Even if there was a radio mast that could have acted as an NDB, doing a non-precision approach doesn't mean that you can land on instruments it is merely a means to align oneself with the runway until you break free from the cloud base at a minimum safe height, then proceed to land visually. Not sure how 800m visibility warranted an attempt.
What myself and others were referring to, was going through the cloud base that could have been at say... 1000ft or even up to 1500ft (a sensible height), use an approach elsewhere to break through the cloud base safely and break off for a little VFR scud running up to Elstree (of course abiding by the 500ft / glide clear rules). Which can and has been done safely many times before.
As I said though - I'd divert to Southend, do the ILS and take the train back home. It may not be the most convenient, but you can't beat being safely on the ground, and only a 50min train journey to Liverpool Street.
I think that flight was doomed from the moment the pilot considered attempting to "have a look" at Elstree when the reported visibility was only 800m on the ground. Even if there was a radio mast that could have acted as an NDB, doing a non-precision approach doesn't mean that you can land on instruments it is merely a means to align oneself with the runway until you break free from the cloud base at a minimum safe height, then proceed to land visually. Not sure how 800m visibility warranted an attempt.
What myself and others were referring to, was going through the cloud base that could have been at say... 1000ft or even up to 1500ft (a sensible height), use an approach elsewhere to break through the cloud base safely and break off for a little VFR scud running up to Elstree (of course abiding by the 500ft / glide clear rules). Which can and has been done safely many times before.
As I said though - I'd divert to Southend, do the ILS and take the train back home. It may not be the most convenient, but you can't beat being safely on the ground, and only a 50min train journey to Liverpool Street.
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break off for a little VFR scud running up to Elstree (of course abiding by the 500ft / glide clear rules). Which can and has been done safely many times before.
