Strange encounter in the clouds tonight
Oh good grief! Another flying club lawyer sniping from the armchair.
........Not zero, but near zero and if he and the other 'idiot', as you term them, are happy to accept the trivial risk for some harmless fun then good luck to them
........Not zero, but near zero and if he and the other 'idiot', as you term them, are happy to accept the trivial risk for some harmless fun then good luck to them
The rules here for VFR flight are below 1000'AGL or 3000 AMSL" which ever is the higher of the two you must be clear of cloud and in sight of land or water, above these altitudes you must the 1000' vertically and 1nm horizontally clear of cloud, other wise you need to be flying IFR on an IFR plan.
Obviously the UK has a far more relaxed interpretation of VFR flight.
If it's legal in the UK and while it's no doubt fun, I'm not convinced it's smart.
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27/09
In this part of the world it is most certainly not looked upon as "harmless fun"
In this part of the world it is most certainly not looked upon as "harmless fun"
Obviously the UK has a far more relaxed interpretation of VFR flight.
MJ
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27/09
Assuming you are qualified, what would you do if flying from A to B VFR but encountered wx that would require a period of flying in cloud then return to VFR flight to destination. Not criticising just asking how it works in NZ.
Assuming you are qualified, what would you do if flying from A to B VFR but encountered wx that would require a period of flying in cloud then return to VFR flight to destination. Not criticising just asking how it works in NZ.
No. Our VFR rules are much the same as yours. The difference is that, outside CAS, we can go VFR-IFR-VFR without any formality.
I presume you mean VMC-IMC-VMC without formality.
I do still find it unusual to allow IMC flight like this, even or more especially outside controlled airspace. Even though I would consider it highly irregular it makes more sense to allow it in controlled airspace where someone is keeping and eye on things.
Do you, when flying IMC adhere to the IFR cruising levels etc?
I just hope none of you poms try this if you ever come over our way. There's already been far too much bent metal on our hillsides where some locals (usually inadvertently) have practiced the art of IMC VFR flight(I know that is a bit of an oxymoron, but it best describes the scenario).
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...if you have a valid IR(R). Statistics shows that IFR flying OCAS in UK actually pose less risk of a mid air collision compared to VFR flying. This might sound strange if you fly in a country where this type of flying is not possible.
Above the Clouds: 27/09
Assuming you are qualified, what would you do if flying from A to B VFR but encountered wx that would require a period of flying in cloud then return to VFR flight to destination. Not criticising just asking how it works in NZ.
Assuming you are qualified, what would you do if flying from A to B VFR but encountered wx that would require a period of flying in cloud then return to VFR flight to destination. Not criticising just asking how it works in NZ.
I am IFR qualified. If I was on a VFR flight and encountered such weather there would be two options.
One; remain VFR and divert around the weather to the destination, return to my departure point or land at a suitable nearby airfield.
Two; if I was able to join an IFR route at or above MSA I would pick up an IFR clearance.
The other option you seem to allude to, that is just go IMC to get to VMC conditions runs shivers of fear up my spine. Too many people have got killed doing that.
I presume you mean VMC-IMC-VMC without formality.
So, you can be flying under VFR in VMC, then IFR in IMC for a period, then return to VFR in VMC.
MJ
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One; remain VFR and divert around the weather to the destination, return to my departure point or land at a suitable nearby airfield.
Two; if I was able to join an IFR route at or above MSA I would pick up an IFR clearance.
The other option you seem to allude to, that is just go IMC to get to VMC conditions runs shivers of fear up my spine. Too many people have got killed doing that.
One; remain VFR and divert around the weather to the destination, return to my departure point or land at a suitable nearby airfield.
Two; if I was able to join an IFR route at or above MSA I would pick up an IFR clearance.
The other option you seem to allude to, that is just go IMC to get to VMC conditions runs shivers of fear up my spine. Too many people have got killed doing that.
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The other option you seem to allude to, that is just go IMC to get to VMC conditions runs shivers of fear up my spine. Too many people have got killed doing that.
I think the danger, if you perceive any danger, is the situational awareness, of going from VFR-IFR-VFR, for no other reason than doing it. I get the descending/ascending through cloud following a plan, but to just enter cloud, no, not for me. The scan has to quickly adjust, then re adjust, unless of course you press AP
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The other option you seem to allude to, that is just go IMC to get to VMC conditions runs shivers of fear up my spine. Too many people have got killed doing that.
One flies in accordance with IFR, which includes MSA as well as cruising level (and the appropriate altimetry). (But in the UK outside controlled airspace it doesn't involve much else - no flight plan, no need to talk to anybody - the clue is in "outside controlled airspace".)
If I haven't prepared for an IFR flight, eg I don't know where MSA is, then I don't go into IMC. Messing around in clouds is something I do only when I've planned the flight as IFR (even if I'm expecting to fly all of it VFR). (Knowing "I'm safe above x,000' within y nm of my home field" would count as "planning" a local bimble for IFR.)
Ok it seems to be joining an IFR route that is the difference, what would be wrong with climbing to MSA or MORA flying the correct semi circular altitude or FL, if there is no ATC then board cast your intentions if required and continuing ? in many parts of the world there are places with no published IFR routes but you can still operate IFR outside controlled airspace especially in remote areas.
Also you need to be able to climb to MSA and have your clearance in VMC prior to going IMC.
Broadcasting blind is futile as for many parts of the country there is no designated frequency outside of controlled airspace.
There is a lot of IFR flight outside of controlled airspace over here. When we operate outside of controlled airspace on an IFR plan ATC will advise all known IFR traffic. The last thing you need is some clown bimbling around IMC and not on a plan as you're going past some small airfield in descent to your destination.
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In the U.S. as well, in uncontrolled airspace, you can fly IFR/IMC without a clearance. Thing is, except for some remote, usually mountainous areas of the Western U.S. and Alaska, there's very little useable uncontrolled airspace left. As a controller, I was *not authorized* to issue a clearance outside controlled airspace. Pilot is on his own.
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Also you need to be able to climb to MSA and have your clearance in VMC prior to going IMC.
The last thing you need is some clown bimbling around IMC and not on a plan as you're going past some small airfield in descent to your destination.
Steve
I'd have thought it was pretty obvious to anyone following the conversation that I was talking about New Zealand.
I was talking about an IFR clearance.
As for the clown comment once again if you'd been reading the thread you'd know it is illegal to fly in IMC in NZ unless you're on an IFR plan. Anyone doing so who isn't on an IFR plan is an idiot. The term clown was being very complimentary. What you want to call them in the UK is up to you.
I know it's legal to fly IMC without a plan in the UK, however I don't consider it very smart, so yes, I'd probably still call them a clown or something similar.
I'd have thought it was pretty obvious to anyone following the conversation that I was talking about New Zealand.
I was talking about an IFR clearance.
As for the clown comment once again if you'd been reading the thread you'd know it is illegal to fly in IMC in NZ unless you're on an IFR plan. Anyone doing so who isn't on an IFR plan is an idiot. The term clown was being very complimentary. What you want to call them in the UK is up to you.
I know it's legal to fly IMC without a plan in the UK, however I don't consider it very smart, so yes, I'd probably still call them a clown or something similar.
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In the U.S. as well, in uncontrolled airspace, you can fly IFR/IMC without a clearance.
I know it's legal to fly IMC without a plan in the UK, however I don't consider it very smart, so yes, I'd probably still call them a clown or something similar.
D.O.
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I understood that all airspace in the USA above 1250ft was class E therefore controlled for IFR. Have I misinterpreted that?
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IFR OCAS, maintaining your own terrain clearance is perfectly normal in the UK. In fact, the statistics in the UK are unequivocal about how much safer you are IFR OCAS than VFR.
I think that it is unreasonable to call someone a 'clown' for holding a different POV to you, when they are doing something that in the UK is legal and normal.
I think that it is unreasonable to call someone a 'clown' for holding a different POV to you, when they are doing something that in the UK is legal and normal.