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Rt pratical exam help

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Rt pratical exam help

Old 14th Jun 2015, 18:25
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Rt pratical exam help

Hi guys,

so ive got my RT pratical exam soon, so ive been brushing up on everything and have a question about diversions.

If i was working a LARS and the weather deteorated at my destination aerodrome and wanted to divert to my alternate how i would i express this?

Would i ask to transfer to my initial destinations freq and tell them i am going to divert or will the LARS do that for me?
Also when i change to the diversion aerodrome they wont know im coming on 1st call so in rt speak how do i ask to land with them?

Thanks in advance
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Old 14th Jun 2015, 19:58
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For the sake of argument, let's say it's Farnborough RADAR, and you're aiming to Popham, but there's a load of crap viz come in from the south, best diversion Odiham.

(You) Farnborough radar, G-CD
(Fbro) G-CD pass your message
(You) G-CD, my visibility en-route is deteriorating and I will shortly be unable to maintain VMC. Request diversion Odiham.
(Fbro) G-CD, roger, standby

(expect a short pause whilst they talk on the landline)

(Fbro) G-CD, I've spoken to Odiham and they can accept you. For Odiham squawk NNNN.
(You) G-CD Squawk NNNN
(Fbro) G-CD, contact Odiham on 119.225, they have your details.
(You) G-CD, Odiham 119.225, thanks for your help.

From there, it's fairly straightforward. As a rule, military airfields like Odiham will just vector you on radar all the way in (making them great safety diversions, apart from the fact that they often don't have AVGAS), whilst civil airfields are more likely to just treat it like a normal arrival.


If you're unsure however, just use plain English, speak clearly, and if necessary route clear of poor conditions first, just stay out of controlled airspace without clearance.

If things are going totally pear-shaped, don't be afraid to ask for a suitable diversion - although in that case many services may transfer you to 121.5 as they have both better locating equipment, and a better database of every tiny landing strip in the UK.

G

Last edited by Genghis the Engineer; 14th Jun 2015 at 23:25.
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Old 14th Jun 2015, 21:20
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Ok thanks very much
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Old 14th Jun 2015, 21:23
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Shouldnt the first point of contact be:

(You) Farnborough Radar, G-ABCD

As this is the first contact made?

Then it can be abbreviated to G-CD??
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Old 14th Jun 2015, 21:28
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It should only be abreviated once the controller has abbreviated it as they may have a similar call sign on frequency and may chose not to.

With regards to your exam, make sure you've got relaying an emergency message and getting a training fix up to scratch. They seem to be pretty popular.
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Old 14th Jun 2015, 23:01
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And if vis is diminishing or weather is moving in on you faster than you can get the diversion organised just circle while you figure out your next move
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Old 14th Jun 2015, 23:21
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Originally Posted by 116i View Post
Shouldnt the first point of contact be:

(You) Farnborough Radar, G-ABCD

As this is the first contact made?

Then it can be abbreviated to G-CD??
My assumption was that the OP were already in contact and they'd already given that - but if this was first contact, you'd be absolutely correct.

G
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Old 14th Jun 2015, 23:23
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Shouldnt the first point of contact be:

(You) Farnborough Radar, G-ABCD

As this is the first contact made?

Then it can be abbreviated to G-CD??
I suggest that you re-read the original question:

If i was working a LARS
So GtE is quite correct.

FBW
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Old 14th Jun 2015, 23:52
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(You) Farnborough radar, G-CD
(Fbro) G-CD pass your message
(You) G-CD, my visibility en-route is deteriorating and I will shortly be unable to maintain VMC. Request diversion Odiham.
(Fbro) G-CD, roger, standby

(expect a short pause whilst they talk on the landline)

(Fbro) G-CD, I've spoken to Odiham and they can accept you. For Odiham squawk NNNN.
(You) G-CD Squawk NNNN
(Fbro) G-CD, contact Odiham on 119.225, they have your details.
(You) G-CD, Odiham 119.225, thanks for your help.


Living in the Southern Hemisphere with an ATC background, the phraseology seems a bit quaint and non standard. I am not criticising, I am just curious about differences. Here it would be more like the following.


(You) Farnborough radar, G-CD
(Fbro) G-CD Go ahead.
(You) G-CD, due weather, request diversion to Odiham.
(Fbro) G-CD, standby

(expect a short pause whilst they talk on the landline)

(Fbro) G-CD, squawk NNNN.
(You) Squawk NNNN G-CD
(Fbro) G-CD, contact Odiham on 119.225, they have your details.
(You) Odiham 119.225 G-CD. (Thanks, non standard but nice.)
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Old 15th Jun 2015, 00:02
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I'd imagine the "go ahead" is the big no-no here and in most parts of the world, it could be mistaken for some kind of instruction or acceptance
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Old 15th Jun 2015, 00:33
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PB you're right. Eight months retired and things change. I just checked our AIP and it states that the only reply needed I'd the aircraft callsign followed by yours.
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Old 15th Jun 2015, 05:25
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Wow. How to make something pretty simple, complicated

Another example of two peoples separated by a common language......
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Old 15th Jun 2015, 07:30
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Rubbish. Fuji's "ssouthern hemisphere" phraseology would work perfectly well in the UK. What are you guys on about?
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Old 15th Jun 2015, 12:02
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It works once you pass your exam however it should be 'pass your message'
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Old 15th Jun 2015, 19:39
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luda171


Particularly as you are discussing the EXAM, my two-penn'th about the example proffered above:


  • Your READBACKS (of SSR code and frequency change) should END with your callsign, not start with it; and
  • Forget garbage such as "thanks for your help" - you are supposed to be demonstrating accurate communication.
2 s
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Old 15th Jun 2015, 23:12
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If i was working a LARS and the weather deteorated at my destination aerodrome and wanted to divert to my alternate how i would i express this?
G-CD diverting to Odiham

You don't call him Farnborough, he knows who he is and you have already established communication. He will probably tell you to contact Odiham.
Would i ask to transfer to my initial destinations freq and tell them i am going to divert or will the LARS do that for me?
If you are not talking to them, how would they know you are coming?
Also when i change to the diversion aerodrome they wont know im coming on 1st call so in rt speak how do i ask to land with them?
When you call them you commence your call with your request. G-ABCD request weather diversion to Odiham. From that they will know you want to land there.

Sounds like you need some instruction before going anywhere near an RT Test.
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Old 16th Jun 2015, 02:47
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Hi Luda.

Just for my own interest, could I ask whereabouts you are in the flying training?


MJ
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Old 16th Jun 2015, 07:43
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Whopity pretty much has it. You can call your original destination once safely on the ground. If you are uneasy about weather your workload will be increasing so you want the minimum activity on the radio to get you what you want.
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Old 16th Jun 2015, 09:41
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Use of phrase 'Contact'.

My understanding of the word 'contact' from an ATC perspective means that the flight has been coordinated between the present unit, and the next, hence the next unit will have full flight details. The initial call to the next unit would be 'Odiham G-ABCD' (reg c/s phonetically, of course).

The antithesis of 'Contact' is 'Freecall'. Full flight info, in this case passed by the pilot, to the next unit. Practically speaking, the initial Freecall would wisely be transmitted 'Odiham G-ABCD'. The controller may then ask for your details by return, or after a short period of standby, when they are ready to accept your details. Even in these circumstances, a reply with the full PHACER treatment might not be welcomed, and the controller, particularly in a radar environment will ask for your flight details they need at that tactical point in time. Eg quite often a squawk would be issued negating the need for the pilot to pass position info over the RTF. Area FISOs, eg London Information, may also selectively request info, but generally anticipate the full PHACER message.

However, controllers who are dealing with such a scenario as described so far in this thread, may use the word 'Contact' along with the phrase, 'they have your details', and this is simply to prevent the full PHACER treatment to the next unit, which may well be a very busy Area FISO, or radar controller.

Sorry this is a bit long winded, but stems from several decades of my own private flying, and working in operational ATC units at Centres and Aerodromes in the UK.

I just hope this helps!!! If not, errrm, thanks for your time!!!

In all aviation training I have received, and given, the phrase 'go ahead' must not pass your lips. ALWAYS 'Pass your message'.

Question from me, if an individual needs RTF Phraseology coaching/brush up on the ground are there any particular rules about who can give that training? I had an AOPA ground instructor certificate, and for several years gave RTF training under the supervision of the FTO RTF Examiner. That was a few years ago now. Can anybody enlighten about any current regs about this?

Thanks.
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Old 16th Jun 2015, 15:05
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Contact means a full radar handover has been completed between the 2 agencies. Continue means your details have been prenoted not including your type of service. Freecall means no details have been passed.
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