Basic and Traffic Service
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Basic and Traffic Service
I have a couple of questions regarding traffic and basic services? (Apologies if this has been asked before. I did a search but couldn't find a thread on this.)
Firstly. does anyone ever ask for a traffic service as opposed to a basic service? If you do, how often do you actually receive it rather than be told you're getting a basic service anyway?
Secondly. Is anyone able to confirm (or otherwise) my belief that an "A/G" cannot give either service, and an "Information" can only give a basic service. i.e. to get a traffic service you need a "radar" such as Farnborough?
Firstly. does anyone ever ask for a traffic service as opposed to a basic service? If you do, how often do you actually receive it rather than be told you're getting a basic service anyway?
Secondly. Is anyone able to confirm (or otherwise) my belief that an "A/G" cannot give either service, and an "Information" can only give a basic service. i.e. to get a traffic service you need a "radar" such as Farnborough?
londonblue...
Your first query - yes, of course - and most of the time, I would hope.
CAP774 tells you...
Your second point...you are correct. In fact, the AGCS does not count as an air traffic service, by definition. Although one could be forgiven for thinking that it was an AFIS - on the cheap, unlicensed and unregulated - in some cases!
2 s
Your first query - yes, of course - and most of the time, I would hope.
CAP774 tells you...
ATS provision
1.5 Controllers shall make all reasonable endeavours to provide the ATS that a pilot requests. However, due to finite ATS provider resources or controller workload, tactical priorities may influence ATS availability or its continued provision. Therefore, a reduction in traffic information and/or deconfliction advice may have to be applied, and in some circumstances an alternative ATS may have to be provided in order to balance overall ATS requirements. FISOs are not licensed to provide Traffic Service, Deconfliction Service, or Procedural Service. Therefore, pilots are not to request any of these ATS from a FISO unit.
FISO units are established to provide ATS at notified aerodromes and Area Control Centres (ACC), and can be identified by the RTF suffix ‘Information’, e.g. ‘London Information’.
1.5 Controllers shall make all reasonable endeavours to provide the ATS that a pilot requests. However, due to finite ATS provider resources or controller workload, tactical priorities may influence ATS availability or its continued provision. Therefore, a reduction in traffic information and/or deconfliction advice may have to be applied, and in some circumstances an alternative ATS may have to be provided in order to balance overall ATS requirements. FISOs are not licensed to provide Traffic Service, Deconfliction Service, or Procedural Service. Therefore, pilots are not to request any of these ATS from a FISO unit.
FISO units are established to provide ATS at notified aerodromes and Area Control Centres (ACC), and can be identified by the RTF suffix ‘Information’, e.g. ‘London Information’.
2 s
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Depends who you ask and when you ask it!
How much you need it is inversely proportional to the likelihood you'll get it.
Try getting a TS on a busy weekend anywhere in the South East, and you've got no chance.
How much you need it is inversely proportional to the likelihood you'll get it.
Try getting a TS on a busy weekend anywhere in the South East, and you've got no chance.
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How much you need it is inversely proportional to the likelihood you'll get it.
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That wasn't my intention - I was just pointing out an incontrovertible fact.
When there is more need for a TS, there will be more demand for it. Therefore you are less likely to receive a TS when you actually need it. Certainly not having a dig at anyone in particular.
When there is more need for a TS, there will be more demand for it. Therefore you are less likely to receive a TS when you actually need it. Certainly not having a dig at anyone in particular.
@t/s: just come flying in civilised FIR's and you can forget about all that crap. In continental FIR's, you are either controlled or not-controlled, and that's it.
Non-controlled meaning that you are not under any obligation to call them, but you always can. If you have no transponder, they'll be unable to do very much for you, yet they'll help when asked. You might even be told about possibly conflicting traffic but only at times of great quiet, i.e. not on a sunny Saturday or Sunday afternoon. In some FIRs, you might be queried about your position and/or intentions, each every so often.
The whole "traffic / basic / extended" issue is no more than another UK-only peculiarity.
Non-controlled meaning that you are not under any obligation to call them, but you always can. If you have no transponder, they'll be unable to do very much for you, yet they'll help when asked. You might even be told about possibly conflicting traffic but only at times of great quiet, i.e. not on a sunny Saturday or Sunday afternoon. In some FIRs, you might be queried about your position and/or intentions, each every so often.
The whole "traffic / basic / extended" issue is no more than another UK-only peculiarity.
Locally we work a military station for basic service but request and usually are provided with a traffic service to climb/descend through cloud to be VMC and then change back to basic.
All very straightforward and they provide an excellent service. On rare occasions on a nice sunny weekend afternoon when everyone is out we might be refused basic service but if the weather is good VFR why would you need it anyway?
When in Rome do as the Romans
All very straightforward and they provide an excellent service. On rare occasions on a nice sunny weekend afternoon when everyone is out we might be refused basic service but if the weather is good VFR why would you need it anyway?
The whole "traffic / basic / extended" issue is no more than another UK-only peculiarity.
Last edited by fireflybob; 9th Jun 2015 at 17:11.
Quote:
The whole "traffic / basic / extended" issue is no more than another UK-only peculiarity.
When in Rome do as the Romans
The whole "traffic / basic / extended" issue is no more than another UK-only peculiarity.
When in Rome do as the Romans
2 s
When in Rome do as the Romans
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ils_so...,_ces_Romains_!
Sono pazzi, questi Romani!
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An instructor I knew took the opposite view: on a bright sunny day with good viz you won't get a traffic service, but the weather is crappy and you are in IMC you stand a good chance as no one else will be flying...
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Unless you need information from the controller a basic service is more useless than a really useless thing, but it loads the controller and so reduces the possibility of getting a Traffic Service for others.
If you are in good VMC and need no information then just listen out on the frequency and squawk the listening squawk if one is available and keep an eye out for traffic.
Otherwise ask for a traffic service.
If you are in good VMC and need no information then just listen out on the frequency and squawk the listening squawk if one is available and keep an eye out for traffic.
Otherwise ask for a traffic service.
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on a bright sunny day with good viz you won't get a traffic service, but the weather is crappy and you are in IMC you stand a good chance as no one else will be flying...
Anyone who flies in cloud outside CAS without some form of radar cover (e.g. Traffic Service) is playing Russian Roulette - ok even radar isn't 100% but it's not the sort of risk I feel comfortable with.
Avoid imitations
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Anyone who flies in cloud outside CAS without some form of radar cover (e.g. Traffic Service) is playing Russian Roulette - ok even radar isn't 100% but it's not the sort of risk I feel comfortable with.
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back to the old "what use is TS in IMC anyway" .
The last time I was in the UK I was shown AIC: Y 106/2012
If your flight conditions and/or nature of flight are such that you need advice on how to avoid conflicting aircraft (e.g. flight in IMC and/or where cockpit lookout is constrained) then you should ask ATC radar units for a Deconfliction Service
Bit of a problem where there is no radar service available.
If you're still not happy with that then stay on the ground or conduct all your flights in controlled airspace but even that can have "risks".