Belgian/German routing suggestions?
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Belgian/German routing suggestions?
Planning on flying VFR to Prague in June to the EFA expo. Most direct route looks like EGSG KOK BUB FLO NOR EDKB, where we'd land to refuel and clear customs, then EDKB EDGS FUL OKB OKL LKLT. Weather permitting, we'd fly most of the trip, once we'd crossed the channel, at 7500 AMSL.
I've not transited over Belgium before, having more experience over France. Am I likely to get cleared though Belgian and German CAS on that flight plan?
I've not transited over Belgium before, having more experience over France. Am I likely to get cleared though Belgian and German CAS on that flight plan?
Myself never fly that high, being disallowed in controlled airspace. But I see no reason you shouldn't be fine, and the Belgian controllers have a good reputation. Only I wonder you mention 7500' - as I remember groundschool, you should rather use 7000 (or 5000, or 9000) - the "+500" rule only applying in non-controlled airspace?
Your choice of EDKB for clearing customs is also a bit strange, that field is very recreational in character. They are notorious for their extremely strict circuit procedures, thus forced by a powerful lot of NIMBY's. But you may have your reasons, of course, no concern of mine.
Will you be flying VFR or IFR? [[ edit: stupido question, you stated VFR from the beginning ]]
Your choice of EDKB for clearing customs is also a bit strange, that field is very recreational in character. They are notorious for their extremely strict circuit procedures, thus forced by a powerful lot of NIMBY's. But you may have your reasons, of course, no concern of mine.
Will you be flying VFR or IFR? [[ edit: stupido question, you stated VFR from the beginning ]]
Last edited by Jan Olieslagers; 18th May 2015 at 17:35.
I regularly transit the Brussels TMA at 80/90/100 IFR, with few issues. KOK BUB LNO NOR is standard. I haven't done it VFR for many years and don't know if there's an issue with it these days.
I've never used EDKB, but if you're going through the overhead, why not stop at EDGS, Siegerland? -- nice restaurant on field and, by reputation, a bit less hectic than KB, as well as being beyond the Cologne CTR. I wouldn't bet on EDKB to EDGS at 7500!
I've never used EDKB, but if you're going through the overhead, why not stop at EDGS, Siegerland? -- nice restaurant on field and, by reputation, a bit less hectic than KB, as well as being beyond the Cologne CTR. I wouldn't bet on EDKB to EDGS at 7500!
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as I remember groundschool, you should rather use 7000 (or 5000, or 9000) - the "+500" rule only applying in non-controlled airspace?
Ground school is many a moon ago for me, Steve, you may well be right.
Still, my notes have a pencil notice that the +500 applies only outside controlled airspace - which is never the case over Belgium, at 4500 or higher.
Bookworms FL 080/090/100 seems to confirm this.
Anyway, as the airspace is controlled, he will be flying where ATC tell him to fly, I should reckon.
BTW I also seem to remember that the semi-circular altitudes apply below transition, too, but only from a certain minimum AGL.
Still, my notes have a pencil notice that the +500 applies only outside controlled airspace - which is never the case over Belgium, at 4500 or higher.
Bookworms FL 080/090/100 seems to confirm this.
Anyway, as the airspace is controlled, he will be flying where ATC tell him to fly, I should reckon.
BTW I also seem to remember that the semi-circular altitudes apply below transition, too, but only from a certain minimum AGL.
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It is a fact that in controlled airspace over Belgium (entire FIR over 4500ft), VFR traffic should fly at IFR flight levels. If a VFR flight 'occupies' FL75 for example, IFR traffic cannot be cleared at FL80 or 70 (less than 1000ft separation). If the VFR traffic is at FL70, IFR traffic can be at FL80 and 60.
Extract from AIP:
ENR 1.2 VISUAL FLIGHT RULES
5 VFR CRUISING LEVELS
Except as specified below, VFR FLTs in level cruising flight when operated above 900 m (3 000 ft) from the ground or water, shall be conducted at a level appropriate to the MAG track as specified in the "Table of cruising levels" (see ENR 1.7).
Except if otherwise instructed in ATC CLRs or as indicated in the AIP, VFR FLTs operated in controlled airspace shall select cruising levels from those to be used by IFR FLTs as specified in the table of cruising levels.
Extract from AIP:
ENR 1.2 VISUAL FLIGHT RULES
5 VFR CRUISING LEVELS
Except as specified below, VFR FLTs in level cruising flight when operated above 900 m (3 000 ft) from the ground or water, shall be conducted at a level appropriate to the MAG track as specified in the "Table of cruising levels" (see ENR 1.7).
Except if otherwise instructed in ATC CLRs or as indicated in the AIP, VFR FLTs operated in controlled airspace shall select cruising levels from those to be used by IFR FLTs as specified in the table of cruising levels.
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Thanks for all the advice, people. I was unaware that the FL +500' semi-circular rule for VFR did not apply in Belgian controlled airspace, so that's good to know. I have an IMC rating and and IR-equipped aircraft including a certified RVAV GPS (but no anti-icing) so although I cannot fly IFR outside the UK I'm familiar with IFR procedures. My plane is quite capable of transit at FL90, but I guess my issue is how I deal with cloud if the tops are above this. If I had to scud-run at, say, 2,500', will I still find a way/ be allowed through? Or would it be more sensible to go further south through northern France?
I cannot speak from experience, only from general impressions - dirkdj has more experience, as have a few other contributors here. Still, as far as I can see, you would be quite ok crossing the CTR's and TMA's of EBOS, EBAW, EBCI, EBLG. Military CTR's will be ok IF AND ONLY IF there is no military activity, this can be seen from the notams. Crossing Brussels CTR might not be that easy, but is not impossible - helicopters do it commonly, at very low altitudes.
There's nothing wrong with flying through Northern France, either, except that the scenery is utterly boring to look at.
There's nothing wrong with flying through Northern France, either, except that the scenery is utterly boring to look at.
