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SEP Renewal? Why bother

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SEP Renewal? Why bother

Old 5th Mar 2015, 17:36
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 5
SEP Renewal? Why bother

UK CAA PPL A holder with an SEP rating that expired nearly 3 years ago.

Not sure if I should bother renewing it for the sake of renewing it as I cannot afford to fly GA anymore since the recession started. My job changed and lets just say I earn a lot less than I did 10 years ago. I am not in the GA scene anymore and I am wondering that mabey I should just dump my PPL and forget about it because if I do go to the trouble of a couple hours refresher training with a skill test after, I will end up back where I started waiting another few years just to renew it again. (Part of me dreams of some how having the money one day to pay for a CPL and try my luck as a First Officer!!!)

Should I forget flying a Cessna 152? I only earn £11,000 a year and renewing that rating would mean living on packets of noodles in my cold flat for a while.
Cheers for any advice.. mabey someone has been here before!
pilot2013 is offline  
Old 5th Mar 2015, 18:25
  #2 (permalink)  
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: 7nm N of LARCK
Posts: 219
Keeping going (on the cheap)


Things don’t sound too wonderful for you at the moment, but hopefully it will improve. If your licence is a ‘poo brown’ CAA PPL (and not a JAR FCL licence) then it’s for life and you can pick up the SEP Rating again if/when finances and motivation return.

If you can find a local group of pilots, either LAA or some ad-hoc gathering, you might find that it’s possible to get the odd flight in as a pax. This might be in exchange for helping with the aircraft etc. most pilots are amenable to a sob story about being skint and wanting to keep one’s hand in. While you can’t put anything in your logbook (well, you can write what ever you like in your logbook, but it won’t be relevant for re-igniting your SEP) it might keep your hand in with GA and reduce the time to get back up to speed for the SEP renewal.

Good luck, hope things improve soon.
Whiskey Kilo Wanderer is offline  
Old 6th Mar 2015, 07:31
  #3 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Europe
Posts: 5,893
Why throw the licence away, you can always renew the rating when you can afford to do it. The requirement is the same whenever you do it, you will just need more training the longer you wait.
Whopity is offline  
Old 6th Mar 2015, 08:39
  #4 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Suffolk
Age: 65
Posts: 273
I was in exactly the same position, also with a poo brown PPL (A). Over 40 as a redundant engineer resulted very little money so a break from flying of over ten years. I got back to work in a different career but couldn't justify the cost of flying. Then I had a flight in a Tiger Moth and shortly afterwards did about three hours refresher and a GFT to get my licence back.

I now fly LAA aircraft to keep the costs down. Just keep your dream of flying alive and you'll get back to it. Don't give up
rusty sparrow is offline  
Old 6th Mar 2015, 09:19
  #5 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 2,410
If your licence is a ‘poo brown’ CAA PPL (and not a JAR FCL licence) then it’s for life and you can pick up the SEP Rating again if/when finances and motivation return.
Since 8 April 2012, all JAA licences are deemed to be EASA licences, which are also non-expiring.
BillieBob is offline  
Old 6th Mar 2015, 09:49
  #6 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Moray,Scotland,U.K.
Posts: 1,387
I got my PPL in August 1964, and stopped flying in March 1965 for financial reasons. I retrained to regain my PPL in April 1987, when I could afford to fly regularly, and have flown 1900 hours solo since. It's purely a financial decision for you.
Maoraigh1 is offline  
Old 6th Mar 2015, 20:16
  #7 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Gloster,UK
Posts: 75
It's not all doom and gloom

OK, so you are short of money at the moment.

Like you I had a CAA PPL (A), and didn't fly for 7 years. I deliberately quit after finding myself scud running, for the sake of my young family.
Getting the licence valid again took.....3 flights. 2x training flights and a test. Sure, they worked a sweat out of me, but I surprised myself. It's like cycling. You don't forget everything overnight.

Suggestions? Visit the local gliding club. Get some wind under your wings cheaply. It only costs a bit of time and a tenner or two.
300hrWannaB is offline  
Old 6th Mar 2015, 20:32
  #8 (permalink)  
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: 23, Railway Cuttings, East Cheam
Age: 63
Posts: 3,125
It only costs a bit of time
I'll go along with the tenner or two but it costs more than a bit of time..
thing is offline  
Old 7th Mar 2015, 10:28
  #9 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Uxbridge
Posts: 576
BillieBob !

The majority of JAA licences, although deemed to be Part FCL, actually have only a five year validity. The last ones issued will run out in three years.
MrAverage is offline  
Old 7th Mar 2015, 11:05
  #10 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 2,410
Yes, but but the point is that they will be re-issued as EASA licences at any time after expiry if you have a valid class rating. In practice, therefore, there is little difference between re-activating a national PPL and a JAA/EASA one.
BillieBob is offline  
Old 7th Mar 2015, 11:30
  #11 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 5
My Brown UK CAA JAR PPL A license expires in a number of months!! Yikes.
The SEP and the license dates are very close to each other. Damn so I also need a new brown book. More money!! And the R/T licence date!!!!!!!!!!!

Thank you all for the above replies and advice. It is very welcome and makes me feel positive when I read them.
pilot2013 is offline  
Old 7th Mar 2015, 18:54
  #12 (permalink)  
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: 7nm N of LARCK
Posts: 219
The Blue Book

Hi Pilot 2013,

The good news is that your shiny new EASA PPL will be valid for life (as mentioned above) so that particular five yearly cost won’t come around again.

One quick warning, if you have any Ratings (TMG, IMCr, Night etc) they should be valid when you change from JAR to EASA. If you have an invalid rating it will appear on the back of the new licence and it will cost you an additional fee to the CAA to get it revalidated in the future. All valid Ratings are transferred to your new EASA licence on issue and are covered in the cost of the new licence.

If you do get a ‘poo brown’ book from the CAA you should complain. The new licences come with a blue folder, usually called a ‘blue book’ to differentiate it from the old licence. Your new EASA licence will comprise sheet(s) of paper and the blue ‘book’ with lots of clear envelopes inside. On no account cut up your new (A4-ish) EASA licence to fit in the plastic envelopes, logical and tempting though it may be. That renders the licence invalid and you will have to get the CAA to print you a new one, for a fee naturally…..

Good luck with your Licence & SEP

Safe Flying.
Whiskey Kilo Wanderer is offline  
Old 7th Mar 2015, 20:26
  #13 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Faversham
Posts: 264
Smile Chopping up your licence

Yes the blue folder has lots of pockets suitable for all the sections of your new EASA paperwork, plus medical. So simply photocopy the originals, chop up the copies and populate the folder. Keep the originals safe at home. You are required to carry your licence, but no one will fault you for a copy if ramp - checked (and it's never happened to me in 30 years flying). Add a reduced copy of your passport or maybe your AOPA crew card, so that you also have the photo-id that is required. Simples.
Curlytips is offline  
Old 7th Mar 2015, 22:55
  #14 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: E Anglia
Posts: 1,100
A photocopy of a licence is not valid, so a chopped up copy of a licence is even less valid.

Just fold the original licence and shove it in one pocket as the CAA intended:

I takes a lot less time to remove and examine one sheet of A4 than to flick through 8 pockets (you actually need 8 pockets if you are going to be able to see both sides of 8 bits without removing any from their pockets.)

If you shove two cut 1/8th sheets to a pocket to save space you'll need to pull them both out to inspect both sides (even if most are blank) for your ramp check. That will really please the humourless Dutch fuzz.

I really don't get this obsession to fill every pocket in the blue book.


Last edited by Cusco; 11th Mar 2015 at 16:46.
Cusco is offline  
Old 7th Mar 2015, 23:11
  #15 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 2,108
Why so many pockets I wonder.....
flybymike is offline  
Old 8th Mar 2015, 07:39
  #16 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Up North
Age: 52
Posts: 559
.....because almost everybody at Gatwick who had much idea what they were doing left? Did you ever try getting an answer to a difficult question out of them around the adoption of part-FCL?
So you'd imagine some admin person just looked at the format of the EASA licences, saw all those nice page numbers on it, then assumed that each of them would be a separate piece of paper and made a wallet with a pocket for each of them.
mrmum is offline  
Old 8th Mar 2015, 12:45
  #17 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Europe
Posts: 5,893
Why so many pockets I wonder.....
The same wallet is used for every licence now, and some licence holders have more pieces of paper than others.
Whopity is offline  
Old 8th Mar 2015, 13:05
  #18 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: UK
Posts: 3,336
Well I have a poo-brown non-expiring CAA licence dating from 1978. It seems if I wish to convert to one of those EASA thingies I have to prove my competence in using the English language, despite all my tests, checkouts, biennials etc etc since my first flying lesson being conducted in that language. Oh, and my RT licence, the test for which I passed in 1978, and was conducted by a Manchester ATCO was also (surprise surprise) conducted in English.

I understand if I do not convert to EASA I cannot fly the likes of the Cessnas and things I did my PPL on all those decades ago. I can still fly the likes of Chipmunks and Yaks though, so that's all right!
Shaggy Sheep Driver is offline  
Old 8th Mar 2015, 22:34
  #19 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 5
If I don't fly and I let my sep expire more than 36 months and I left my brown jar licence uk Caa expire aswell and say in a few years I want to fly again do I have to do the full 45 hours again from scratch? Thank you
pilot2013 is offline  
Old 8th Mar 2015, 22:53
  #20 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Quite near 'An aerodrome somewhere in England'
Posts: 25,412
pilot2013 - no.

You'll just need to hold the medical for the licence you wish to obtain, do whatever refresher training you need and pass an SEP Class Rating renewal proficiency check with an examiner.
BEagle is offline  

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