Use of GPS whilst hour building

[ChickenHouse]

CAA recently removed the requirement to carry VOR ADF Or DME for IFR flight unless procedures at destination require them. Consequently I can now fly IFR airways from Gloucester to Alderney with nothing but a GTN 650 or GNS 430W or equivalent, that would apply to anywhere else with an RNAV or ILS approach and a waypoint rather than beacon for the missed approach.

If you are equipped with GTN650 or GNS430(W) you do carry a NAV for VOR etc - just to be precise ...

[Johnm]

Good point Chicken House!

[Fitter2]

A wise pilot once remarked to me that a GPS confirms that he was exactly where he knew he was without using it.

Highly useful as an aid, not to be trusted as one's sole means of navigation (not because of unreliability, but the prospect of being lost without it would indicate a lack of basic skills, or a failure of training.)

[marcus1290]

I think the GPS discussion is an interesting one. I've been saying for a while now that i think some form of GPS might become mandatory in the future. Not as a form of primary navigation, but as an aid for situation awareness with airspace and as a quick reference in the event of getting lost.

I fly with a Garmin 430 and a 530 and i use them for navigation, but not my primary form of nav. I feel very uncomfortable without a written plog and a chart on my lap. My opinion is that if its there, you might as well put it to use.

I agree that IFR nav is ALMOST impossible without a GPS, but i think its extremely important to know how to fly IMC without one. Electrics can fail.

I also wonder how long it will be until GPS training is a part of the PPL syllabus?

[foxmoth]

AFAIUI This is not a discussion over what is good to use in general flying or can be used to fly IFR but what to use in hour building for the CPL test, for that you should use whatever is going to be useful in the test itself so that you are well practised for that, the rest is a seperate discussion!

[Genghis the Engineer]

I agree with Foxmoth.



I have various strong views on both the use of GPS in GA flying, and the way it is, or isn't, integrated into the PPL and CPL syllabi. However, that wasn't the exam question.

G

[foxmoth]

I agree that IFR nav is ALMOST impossible without a GPS,

And raised this one as a seperate thread for just that reason!

[flybymike]

I think the GPS discussion is an interesting one. I've been saying for a while now that i think some form of GPS might become mandatory in the future. Not as a form of primary navigation, but as an aid for situation awareness with airspace and as a quick reference in the event of getting lost.

There would be far fewer infringements if everyone used GPS as a primary source of navigation rather than relying on stop watches, wind drift, headings, and eyeballs. This is the 21st century let's not go back to astrodomes, sextants and wizardry.
For those who enjoy the challenge of visual navigation for primary nav, then fine, carry on, and just live with the increased associated nav risk and its consequences.

[skyking1]

The KNS80 is still plumbed into the Collins PN101 HSI for ILS as well. I have a simple VOR needle converted for my GPS course.
Interesting tidbit: The HSI is serial number 0005

On topic: Of course I use the GPS when needed. I fly so many of the same old trip and still hold a chart with the proper section open when VFR. To do otherwise would be irresponsible.

[marcus1290]

There would be far fewer infringements if everyone used GPS as a primary source of navigation rather than relying on stop watches, wind drift, headings, and eyeballs.

I quite agree and thats all well until the GPS fails one day. Or the appropriate update isn't done. Knowing the fundamentals of navigation is a must. Sometimes i don't like using a GPS, i think it takes the fun away from flying. Bumbling around in the cub with a chart and plog is my idea of heaven.

[Mach Jump]

I appreciate this has probably been asked countless times to a certain degree, but what are your thoughts on the use of a GPS whilst hour building? I still plan all my flights like normal (whizz wheel, plog etc), but it's nice to have the reassurance that you are exactly where you think you are.

I agree with Genghis and Foxmoth. The CPL GFT requires accurate flying, and slick use of DR (Deductive Reckoning) navigation, so practice that as much as you can.

No harm in having a moving map GPS though, both to confirm the accuracy of your DR nav, and to retrace your path afterwards to analyse your mistakes.


MJ

Ps. Thats exactly how I use GPS during VFR flying still.

[foxmoth]

Quote

No harm in having a moving map GPS though, both to confirm the accuracy of your DR nav, and to retrace your path afterwards to analyse your mistakes

Yes, but turn it on and leave it in your bag until after unless you get lost, otherwise it is easy to end up cheating which defeats the point of the excercise!

[Mariner9]

"I didn't want to cheat so the GPS was in my bag" doesn't sound like the best excuse for an airspace bust

[Shaggy Sheep Driver]

I could just about see the airfield from the point he declared himself lost We were next to a town that had a railway going right to the airfield as well

I'm a great believer in carrying and using a GPS. However, the above illustrates that just as some motorists follow their sat navs onto railway lines or drive for 200 miles the wrong way to place that's 5 minutes away because they input the wrong destination, so GPS can encourage lazy pilots to ignore the basics of navigation.

[foxmoth]

"I didn't want to cheat so the GPS was in my bag" doesn't sound like the best excuse for an airspace bust

So don't plan your flight to go so near CAS it will be a problem - the OP is hour building towards a CPL, not trying to shave a few seconds off his flight time by going the shortest route. Many GPS systems can be set up to warn as you approach CAS, if you are that worried set it to "ping" and have it where you will hear it - but to my mind, if your nav is that bad you NEED the practice!