SR22 Parachute Deployment - Remarkable Video
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I stand to be corrected but am reasonably certain these ferry tanks would refill the wing tanks and not direct to feed the engine.
Therefore you would use fuel in the wings evenly and then keep topping them off rather than use the ferry tank first and then the wing.
I suspect a mechanical failure in this system that could not be fixed airborne rather than any idiot cirrus pilot or cowboy ferry company theory.
Therefore you would use fuel in the wings evenly and then keep topping them off rather than use the ferry tank first and then the wing.
I suspect a mechanical failure in this system that could not be fixed airborne rather than any idiot cirrus pilot or cowboy ferry company theory.
Hurray for cirrus protecting idiots from themselves.
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Collapsible Aircraft Ferry Tanks - Turtlepac
That's the type I have seen.
Why on earth would you want to push fuel in the wrong direction up a fuel line when it can go straight to the engine? Your doubling if not tripling the number of things that go wrong.
Apart from which there is usually baffle flaps in the tank to stop sloshing to the wing tips.
The only time you might have issues is if there is a return fuel line from the engine with injected engines to the fuel tank.
Then you would use one tank until it was quarter empty then use the ferry tank until it was 3/4 full again and repeat. But this has a huge gotcha in that if you forget to swap back to the main tank to empty it down again the fuel pump is a high volume constant pressure pump and it will vent vast quantities of fuel over the side through the tank vent in minutes if you leave it to over fill the wing tank.
Mariner if you fly it like any other aircraft without a chute, and don't alter your flight profiles or decisions because you have the chute, use the training which is available to you through the cirrus training schemes I am pretty certain you will never require to use it.
Then you will be an alive none idiot.
That's the type I have seen.
Why on earth would you want to push fuel in the wrong direction up a fuel line when it can go straight to the engine? Your doubling if not tripling the number of things that go wrong.
Apart from which there is usually baffle flaps in the tank to stop sloshing to the wing tips.
The only time you might have issues is if there is a return fuel line from the engine with injected engines to the fuel tank.
Then you would use one tank until it was quarter empty then use the ferry tank until it was 3/4 full again and repeat. But this has a huge gotcha in that if you forget to swap back to the main tank to empty it down again the fuel pump is a high volume constant pressure pump and it will vent vast quantities of fuel over the side through the tank vent in minutes if you leave it to over fill the wing tank.
Mariner if you fly it like any other aircraft without a chute, and don't alter your flight profiles or decisions because you have the chute, use the training which is available to you through the cirrus training schemes I am pretty certain you will never require to use it.
Then you will be an alive none idiot.
Last edited by mad_jock; 1st Feb 2015 at 11:58.
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Having read/heard various arguments about whether to pull or not. I think it really is dependant on the circumstances. For instance doing circuits for conversion and engine quits, would you pull late downwind/1.5nm final? (I don't know the minimum height for this to work) Flying over a densly populated area with nowhere flat to drop in safely, or over a huge flat plain of savannha. Or even an insterstate in Arizona, effectively an infinite runway with little traffic.
I would certainly pull the chute over water having seen the video but. In other circumstances once you have pulled, all control is totally lost, and needs careful/rational and, positive thinking, during a life threatening period in your life,if it happens.
I would certainly pull the chute over water having seen the video but. In other circumstances once you have pulled, all control is totally lost, and needs careful/rational and, positive thinking, during a life threatening period in your life,if it happens.
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I stand to be corrected but am reasonably certain these ferry tanks would refill the wing tanks and not direct to feed the engine.
Therefore you would use fuel in the wings evenly and then keep topping them off rather than use the ferry tank first and then the wing.
Therefore you would use fuel in the wings evenly and then keep topping them off rather than use the ferry tank first and then the wing.
I would expect that fuel is drained from the tank that is currently selected via the installed valve, respectively. SO, to maintain and also avoid shifting of center of gravity, I would start by draining fuel from the ferry tank.
I suspect a mechanical failure in this system that could not be fixed airborne rather than any idiot cirrus pilot or cowboy ferry company theory.
WP
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the pull option has been debated to death on here.
And to be honest myself and the others that regularly have a go at the disciple's of cirrus don't actually have a problem with the chute system.
We do though have a problem with the seemingly high number of chute pulls caused due to incompetent idiots putting themselves and others in situations which they should never have been near anyway.
Ferrying an aircraft is a dangerous game, and to be honest I really don't care what an individual does to risk their own life.
But to hold someone up as an example of airmanship because they pulled a handle in the roof is just madness.
This incident will be a huge error chain more than likely starting days before the flight. And more than likely it won't just be one person that screwed up.
The airmanship is the error chain being broken before the incident and the flight becoming a none event never to be heard of. And nobody will sing the praises of the pilot that told his boss to go and travel sexually because something wasn't right.
And to be honest myself and the others that regularly have a go at the disciple's of cirrus don't actually have a problem with the chute system.
We do though have a problem with the seemingly high number of chute pulls caused due to incompetent idiots putting themselves and others in situations which they should never have been near anyway.
Ferrying an aircraft is a dangerous game, and to be honest I really don't care what an individual does to risk their own life.
But to hold someone up as an example of airmanship because they pulled a handle in the roof is just madness.
This incident will be a huge error chain more than likely starting days before the flight. And more than likely it won't just be one person that screwed up.
The airmanship is the error chain being broken before the incident and the flight becoming a none event never to be heard of. And nobody will sing the praises of the pilot that told his boss to go and travel sexually because something wasn't right.
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Like MJ and coming into flying when it was a luxury being able to artificially put a VOR on your track it bothers me slightly when we rely too much on the big screen displays and pilot aids here there and everywhere.
It is great when backed up by solid pilot skills and where th pilot can quite happily hand fly in IMC and have a great sense of spatial awareness allowing a lot of mental capacity to handle whatever goes wrong then the autopilot becomes a luxury not a nessessity.
it bothers me when I see chute pulls for failed IAS or failure in IMC to hand fly a simple missed approach!
The standard fit chute pull will always attract attention as it flies in the face of conventional training.
To me it is a great extra safety addition and I would like to see all manufacturers offering the chute as standard.
for me it is a bit like the second engine in a twin! it is an extra safety device at your fingertips which when used with the right skills and judgement can add a lot to flight safety.
when the chute or other pilot aids are used to cover up pilot inability then we need to worry.
This guy was a ferry pilot and I take my hat off to those who ferry single engine aircraft long distance they have more guts than I have. I have ferried high level in jets across the North Atlantic and take my hat off to those poor guys creeping along over vast stretches of water in the worst weather way below.
I think its jumping the gun somewhat to point the finger at this pilot till we know the facts. We all make mistakes some are more costly than others but I don't think we can classify him as a poorly experienced PPL flying out of his capability and relying on systems and chutes.
He probably made the right call pulling the chute ( I am not so sure it would have been the right call had he been at 1300 feet ASL) why he got into a situation requiring that pull is another matter and at this stage only he knows in his heart whether it was his own cock up which caused that situation and even if it was we all cock up now and again but some we get away with to be put away as a lesson or experience and known by no one but us ! Others sadly are far more costly
Pace
It is great when backed up by solid pilot skills and where th pilot can quite happily hand fly in IMC and have a great sense of spatial awareness allowing a lot of mental capacity to handle whatever goes wrong then the autopilot becomes a luxury not a nessessity.
it bothers me when I see chute pulls for failed IAS or failure in IMC to hand fly a simple missed approach!
The standard fit chute pull will always attract attention as it flies in the face of conventional training.
To me it is a great extra safety addition and I would like to see all manufacturers offering the chute as standard.
for me it is a bit like the second engine in a twin! it is an extra safety device at your fingertips which when used with the right skills and judgement can add a lot to flight safety.
when the chute or other pilot aids are used to cover up pilot inability then we need to worry.
This guy was a ferry pilot and I take my hat off to those who ferry single engine aircraft long distance they have more guts than I have. I have ferried high level in jets across the North Atlantic and take my hat off to those poor guys creeping along over vast stretches of water in the worst weather way below.
I think its jumping the gun somewhat to point the finger at this pilot till we know the facts. We all make mistakes some are more costly than others but I don't think we can classify him as a poorly experienced PPL flying out of his capability and relying on systems and chutes.
He probably made the right call pulling the chute ( I am not so sure it would have been the right call had he been at 1300 feet ASL) why he got into a situation requiring that pull is another matter and at this stage only he knows in his heart whether it was his own cock up which caused that situation and even if it was we all cock up now and again but some we get away with to be put away as a lesson or experience and known by no one but us ! Others sadly are far more costly
Pace
Last edited by Pace; 1st Feb 2015 at 14:37.
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Why on earth would you want to push fuel in the wrong direction up a fuel line when it can go straight to the engine?
It is very preferable to not have ferry fuel take a short cut to the engine. Whenever possible, it is flowed into the vent space of a fuel tank. By doing this, it is assured that any air bubbles trapped in the ferry fuel will release into the tank vent space, rather than be forced down a fuel line into the engine(s). And as ferry tanks typically do not have sumps, any water or contamination can be handled by the tank's sump, and sump drain system, rather than bypassing it to the engine, and causing a fuel flow interruption.
Experienced ferry pilots and organizations know all this, which is one of the very good reason to ferry aircraft with competent crews. Things still go wrong, and this is certainly not the first aircraft to splash, carrying unusable ferry fuel into the ocean with it. All we can do is our best...
Honestly, if I had to make a forced landing in the open ocean, and I had a huge ship which was expecting me, and co-operating in my recovery in advance of my landing, I'd be asking for a for a turn, and land/ditch in the lee. See this video, 2:30 in....
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To ask a potentially daft question, why do we ferry light aircraft long distances by air? Surely it's cheaper/easier/safer to de-rig and put it in a shipping container for sea freight?
I read somewhere that when you buy "scottish smoked salmon" in Scotland, the chances are it was caught in Scotland, shipped to China to be smoked and shipped back to Scotland to sell as it's cheaper than just smoking it in Scotland!
I read somewhere that when you buy "scottish smoked salmon" in Scotland, the chances are it was caught in Scotland, shipped to China to be smoked and shipped back to Scotland to sell as it's cheaper than just smoking it in Scotland!
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Nah there is a big smoking factory in Dingwall.
I used to take 2 full artic trailers in and out the place every day for 3 weeks as temp job.
[photograph deleted as it is larger than 800 x 800]
Oh joy an unbonded lump of uninsulated metal which are mounted on a bit of wood, with fuel going through it.
I used to take 2 full artic trailers in and out the place every day for 3 weeks as temp job.
[photograph deleted as it is larger than 800 x 800]
Oh joy an unbonded lump of uninsulated metal which are mounted on a bit of wood, with fuel going through it.
