Flying G reg experimentals in Europe
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Flying G reg experimentals in Europe
Hi all
Am looking at a potential purchase of a G-regged experimental.
Want to base it in Belgium and fly it across Europe.
Does anybody know if there are restrictions?
Am looking at a potential purchase of a G-regged experimental.
Want to base it in Belgium and fly it across Europe.
Does anybody know if there are restrictions?
There's no such thing as experimental on the G reg.
Do you mean Permit to Fly?
If so, most of what you want to know is here...
http://www.lightaircraftassociation....20Aircraft.pdf
Do you mean Permit to Fly?
If so, most of what you want to know is here...
http://www.lightaircraftassociation....20Aircraft.pdf
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I was made to understand that as of April 2015 there would be a european legislation that accepts all experimentals, permits to fly in all countries
anybody heard of this ?
Belgium?
anybody heard of this ?
Belgium?
The Belgian 30 days rule, is thirty flying days valid for one year.
Ie the plane can fly at any time in Belgium during the 12 months, but with a maximum of 30 different days.
If you check your logbook, 30 days in a year is actually quite a bit (particularly for permit, so good VFR, flying).
Additionally (though I never said this!!!) if flying out of small airfields and keeping clear of anything controlled - nobody would know anyway if you flew more than 30 days...
Ie the plane can fly at any time in Belgium during the 12 months, but with a maximum of 30 different days.
If you check your logbook, 30 days in a year is actually quite a bit (particularly for permit, so good VFR, flying).
Additionally (though I never said this!!!) if flying out of small airfields and keeping clear of anything controlled - nobody would know anyway if you flew more than 30 days...
Last edited by Sam Rutherford; 24th Jan 2015 at 19:33. Reason: tried and failed to add a smiley!
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What kind of plane are you talking about?
At some point in time, it would be potentially better to register it under OO. Don't forget that you will need a UK inspector at east once a year.
Anyway, if you are willing to operate a non OO registered experimental (or a G permit to fly) in Belgium, you will need to apply for a permission every year.
Aanvraagformulier - Formulieren - FOD Mobiliteit
or
http://www.mobilit.belgium.be/fr/bin...467-207147.doc
Also you need to pay 96EUR a year for this authorisation, be limited to 30 flying days during this year, submit a flight plan for every flight (also send it to a specific e-mail address) and send at the end of the year a report with the trips that you made.
At some point in time, it would be potentially better to register it under OO. Don't forget that you will need a UK inspector at east once a year.
Anyway, if you are willing to operate a non OO registered experimental (or a G permit to fly) in Belgium, you will need to apply for a permission every year.
Aanvraagformulier - Formulieren - FOD Mobiliteit
or
http://www.mobilit.belgium.be/fr/bin...467-207147.doc
Also you need to pay 96EUR a year for this authorisation, be limited to 30 flying days during this year, submit a flight plan for every flight (also send it to a specific e-mail address) and send at the end of the year a report with the trips that you made.
Last edited by ploucandco; 25th Jan 2015 at 09:47. Reason: remove link that was already given in a previous post
Belgium?
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The "Experimental" aircraft I have flown were given a special flight authority, to permit flight for a very specific purpose, usually testing a new feature or design change, which required flight testing. For this, I must specify the reason for the flight (the "experiment"), and a flight test plan to be followed. It is nearly unheard of that such aircraft cross boarders, other than to attend airshows (Farnborough, for example). The flight permits were both calendar and regionally limited. I can certainly understand why a nation would want to restrict the flight of aircraft which were doing an experiment.
I've also flown amateur built aircraft, which were certainly not "experimental" (I hope!). I know that Americans seem to stick "Experimental" on their amateur built aircraft, I really wonder why. What's the "experiment"? The FAA system, I suppose - apparently not followed elsewhere.
I've also flown amateur built aircraft, which were certainly not "experimental" (I hope!). I know that Americans seem to stick "Experimental" on their amateur built aircraft, I really wonder why. What's the "experiment"? The FAA system, I suppose - apparently not followed elsewhere.
What's the "experiment"? The FAA system, I suppose - apparently not followed elsewhere.
Again, in Australia the current legislation superseded the AABA -- Australian Amateur Built Aircraft system, which was highly bureaucratic and restrictive.
Many of the Experiment Amateur Built aircraft are highly customized, from basic designs, many are unique designs, but they all have one thing in common, they do not qualify for a Certificate of Airworthiness. Indeed, by definition, they are not airworthy, because they are not built to a certified design and under a production certificate.
Tootle pip!!
In terms of international air law, the most correct term is "Sub-Icao", that is to say, aeroplanes which for some reason or another are ineligible for issue of an ICAO compliant Certificate of Airworthiness.
In practice that term isn't used in any nation's domestic regulations, and every country has its own system of labelling and permissions.
In the USA, pretty much everything sub-ICAO, from a kitplane to a new Boeing that hasn't for a CofA yet, is labelled "Experimental". Their approach is built somewhat upon the amount of empty space they have there, and basically lets you build and fly whatever you like, so long as you don't fly it over any habitation. Part of their rules require you to paint the word "experimental" in clear view on the aeroplane. It is a particular approach that hasn't found favour in many other countries. Some of them still use the term "experimental" but every country which uses the word, means something different by it.
In Britain, sub-ICAO aircraft fall into several categories.
(1) True flight test. These are operated under "B-conditions", possibly supported by an EASA "Permit to Fly", probably not. they will either have a standard G-ABCD registration, or have a B-conditions number, which will look something like G-12-34. You don't see those used much nowadays. Permissions to fly a B-conditions aeroplane in any country but Britain are almost impossible to obtain.
(2) Permit to Fly. This is the lower UK-only equivalent to a CofA. They all look about the same on the paperwork, but have numerous flavours, including...
- Microlight / type approved (e.g. a CTSW)
- Microlight / amateur built (e.g. an X'Air)
- Microlight / type accepted. (e.g. a Tiger Cub)
- Amateur built (most of the LAA fleet)
- Vintage or ex military (any civilian owned Spitfire, most Austers, Condors....)
- CAA issued (could be anything, but most likely some temporary issue on something stuggling with the paperwork to help a company out. I have seen paperwork showing a VC10 on a permit, but the biggest in my logbook was an Islander for a ferry before fitting out).
(3) Deregulated
- This is SSDR microlights, hang-gliders, powered paragliders... For all reasonable purposes, there is no paperwork.
I think that the original poster, in referring (wrongly but understandably) to "experimental", meant "amateur built" (either light or microlight), for which my original answer is still correct.
G
In practice that term isn't used in any nation's domestic regulations, and every country has its own system of labelling and permissions.
In the USA, pretty much everything sub-ICAO, from a kitplane to a new Boeing that hasn't for a CofA yet, is labelled "Experimental". Their approach is built somewhat upon the amount of empty space they have there, and basically lets you build and fly whatever you like, so long as you don't fly it over any habitation. Part of their rules require you to paint the word "experimental" in clear view on the aeroplane. It is a particular approach that hasn't found favour in many other countries. Some of them still use the term "experimental" but every country which uses the word, means something different by it.
In Britain, sub-ICAO aircraft fall into several categories.
(1) True flight test. These are operated under "B-conditions", possibly supported by an EASA "Permit to Fly", probably not. they will either have a standard G-ABCD registration, or have a B-conditions number, which will look something like G-12-34. You don't see those used much nowadays. Permissions to fly a B-conditions aeroplane in any country but Britain are almost impossible to obtain.
(2) Permit to Fly. This is the lower UK-only equivalent to a CofA. They all look about the same on the paperwork, but have numerous flavours, including...
- Microlight / type approved (e.g. a CTSW)
- Microlight / amateur built (e.g. an X'Air)
- Microlight / type accepted. (e.g. a Tiger Cub)
- Amateur built (most of the LAA fleet)
- Vintage or ex military (any civilian owned Spitfire, most Austers, Condors....)
- CAA issued (could be anything, but most likely some temporary issue on something stuggling with the paperwork to help a company out. I have seen paperwork showing a VC10 on a permit, but the biggest in my logbook was an Islander for a ferry before fitting out).
(3) Deregulated
- This is SSDR microlights, hang-gliders, powered paragliders... For all reasonable purposes, there is no paperwork.
I think that the original poster, in referring (wrongly but understandably) to "experimental", meant "amateur built" (either light or microlight), for which my original answer is still correct.
G
Last edited by Genghis the Engineer; 26th Jan 2015 at 07:30.
