Plane crash near Basingstoke UK
Was it really an "exciting" departure?
You could always have left three of them behind on the ground and then picked them up somewhere else that was less "exciting".
You could always have left three of them behind on the ground and then picked them up somewhere else that was less "exciting".
I've done that a couple of times. With another pilot, it's straightforward - explaining to the former Mrs.G that she weighed too much and I had to fly without her on the other hand stretched my diplomatic skills somewhat.
G
A minor, but contributory, factor. The present Mrs.G has an engineering degree, which means she can at-least follow the maths if I show her.
That she has a somewhat lower ZFW is admittedly an aesthetic advantage.
G
That she has a somewhat lower ZFW is admittedly an aesthetic advantage.
G
Last edited by Genghis the Engineer; 12th Jan 2015 at 16:44.
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A glider pilot runs out of options when the lift runs out and a landing becomes inevitable.
The truth is that most serious glider field landing accidents result from picking a field too late and / or trying to continue to soar away from too low a height with no time to execute any sort of sensible circuit into the field.
There's a lot in common between the decision to abandon soaring flight and land because of deteriorating lift and the decision to abandon powered flight and land because of deteriorating weather. The difference is that the glider pilot trains for it, and expects it to happen.
If it is true that in the case of this accident, the pilot had got his undercarriage down then one would assume the decision to land had been made, presumably at Popham. However, executing a decent circuit at low altitude perhaps flying into and out of cloud would never be easy.
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As one of the very few people that witnessed this event I am amazed at the depth of knowledge that some people appear to have on the subject.
It has been said on here that Popham was closed. That is not the case.
Popham did not close that day, since so few people were flying it was just not necessary. When Popham does close it is usually to preserve the runways and so is done when it appears the weather may be good enough to fly, but use of the runways would churn them up. When it is bad weather it is just taken as read.
However,
Popham would NEVER turn away an aircraft that needed to land. Even if the runways are closed we would accept a divert. Popham being 'closed' is NOT an issue here.
The weather earlier in the day had been vile but by 3pm it had cleared and whilst there was low cloud, estimated at about 400ft, it was clear beneath with visibility estimated at 5K. The wind was 10 - 15 kts from the north east. It as NOT foggy and it was NOT raining. It may have been elsewhere but if you are going to comment at what was going on at Popham you might as well try to get it right.
I am not going to comment on 'what if's' and even what happened as I have made my statement to the AAIB and the investigation is ongoing.
It was a sad and shocking thing to witness but we were able to get the emergency services there very quickly and the South Central Air Ambulance was there in 8 minutes and located the aeorplane immediately with directions from Popham.
The state of the weather elsewhere, and the decision making of the pilot is not for me to comment on, as I was not there, and the AAIB report will cover this. Most of what falls outside this is supposition.
Melvyn Hiscock
It has been said on here that Popham was closed. That is not the case.
Popham did not close that day, since so few people were flying it was just not necessary. When Popham does close it is usually to preserve the runways and so is done when it appears the weather may be good enough to fly, but use of the runways would churn them up. When it is bad weather it is just taken as read.
However,
Popham would NEVER turn away an aircraft that needed to land. Even if the runways are closed we would accept a divert. Popham being 'closed' is NOT an issue here.
The weather earlier in the day had been vile but by 3pm it had cleared and whilst there was low cloud, estimated at about 400ft, it was clear beneath with visibility estimated at 5K. The wind was 10 - 15 kts from the north east. It as NOT foggy and it was NOT raining. It may have been elsewhere but if you are going to comment at what was going on at Popham you might as well try to get it right.
I am not going to comment on 'what if's' and even what happened as I have made my statement to the AAIB and the investigation is ongoing.
It was a sad and shocking thing to witness but we were able to get the emergency services there very quickly and the South Central Air Ambulance was there in 8 minutes and located the aeorplane immediately with directions from Popham.
The state of the weather elsewhere, and the decision making of the pilot is not for me to comment on, as I was not there, and the AAIB report will cover this. Most of what falls outside this is supposition.
Melvyn Hiscock
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FBS, thank you for your post.
Very crisp, and gets the thread back on track.
I have visited Popham a few times, never from the air, but for cups of tea etc. whilst trailers were being attended to by a local firm. I have always been impressed by the field, and imho you/it deserve the high reputation.
I would be interested to know, though, was he, as far as you know, actually trying to get into Popham when the accident happened?
Very crisp, and gets the thread back on track.
I have visited Popham a few times, never from the air, but for cups of tea etc. whilst trailers were being attended to by a local firm. I have always been impressed by the field, and imho you/it deserve the high reputation.
I would be interested to know, though, was he, as far as you know, actually trying to get into Popham when the accident happened?
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That she has a somewhat lower ZFW is admittedly an aesthetic advantage.
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The weather earlier in the day had been vile but by 3pm it had cleared and whilst there was low cloud, estimated at about 400ft, it was clear beneath with visibility estimated at 5K. The wind was 10 - 15 kts
Thanks FBS, yes brings the thread back on track..
Airmanship This will be a challenging flight as Popham is small airfield with grass runways and no navaids to assist with locating it on the final leg. Good visual navigation is needed to ensure that one reaches the overhead for landing. Once at the airfield there are a lot of trees around so the approaches to Runway 08/26 are both not along the centre line and involve a turn when on very short final.
Cix VFR Club Events - Popham Airfield elevation is 550 ft above sea level.
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Maxred
If you are going to quote me and then quote someone else I would appreciate there being a clear demarcation.
Whilst I said the first section of your quote I did not say the other two. Popham is, indeed 550ft above sea level but the other quote looks a little strange.
If you are going to quote me and then quote someone else I would appreciate there being a clear demarcation.
Whilst I said the first section of your quote I did not say the other two. Popham is, indeed 550ft above sea level but the other quote looks a little strange.
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FSB
Your are right, none of us know why this poor guy had the misfortune of crashing, and you are also correct to state we will not know the true cause until the AAIB get done,
There have been several posts that contained rather dismal Metars that allude to weather potentially playing a part, you yourself pointed out that conditions had been "vile" prior to the crash but go on to state the weather "cleared" and "It was as NOT foggy and it was NOT raining" and observed conditions being cloud at 400, Vis 3miles, wind up to 15k. The implication, if I am reading your post correctly, is the weather went from very bad to acceptable. It didn't, cloud at 400, vis 3sm and wind of 15kt are challenging conditions for a VFR pilot to fly or land in regardless of the absence of rain or fog. I feel obligated to point this out not to further speculate as to the causes of this crash but to hopefully avoid the next one if some poor novice reads your post and incorrectly interprets the conditions you describe as clear flying weather.
Your are right, none of us know why this poor guy had the misfortune of crashing, and you are also correct to state we will not know the true cause until the AAIB get done,
There have been several posts that contained rather dismal Metars that allude to weather potentially playing a part, you yourself pointed out that conditions had been "vile" prior to the crash but go on to state the weather "cleared" and "It was as NOT foggy and it was NOT raining" and observed conditions being cloud at 400, Vis 3miles, wind up to 15k. The implication, if I am reading your post correctly, is the weather went from very bad to acceptable. It didn't, cloud at 400, vis 3sm and wind of 15kt are challenging conditions for a VFR pilot to fly or land in regardless of the absence of rain or fog. I feel obligated to point this out not to further speculate as to the causes of this crash but to hopefully avoid the next one if some poor novice reads your post and incorrectly interprets the conditions you describe as clear flying weather.
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The last 2 posts, in reference to weather, seem to make good sense on this particular day.
I wouldn't have gone aloft even with IR (R) on such a day.
I'd still be interested to know if he was actually trying to get into Popham, whose plate shows that first-time in, approach is quite tricky in CAVOK, let alone what existed on the day, or did he just happen to be there?
Was Popham trying to guide him in? Presumably they could, at least see him as they (to their credit) got the emergency services to the scene as quickly as they have said.
I wouldn't have gone aloft even with IR (R) on such a day.
I'd still be interested to know if he was actually trying to get into Popham, whose plate shows that first-time in, approach is quite tricky in CAVOK, let alone what existed on the day, or did he just happen to be there?
Was Popham trying to guide him in? Presumably they could, at least see him as they (to their credit) got the emergency services to the scene as quickly as they have said.
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I had a phone call on the Sunday morning from a customer.
Asked if I had been contacted by CAA or Police...no.
Told me Police had knocked on his door the previous night and told him straight out his son had died in a plane crash!
He doesn't have a son, named spelt slightly different.
I think you check some ones name and a few other facts first before coming straight out with that information.
Asked if I had been contacted by CAA or Police...no.
Told me Police had knocked on his door the previous night and told him straight out his son had died in a plane crash!
He doesn't have a son, named spelt slightly different.
I think you check some ones name and a few other facts first before coming straight out with that information.
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That would require a radio call in the first place.
What had you in mind? AGCS transmitting "This will be a Surveillance Visual Approach to Runway zero three terminating at touchdown"?
What had you in mind? AGCS transmitting "This will be a Surveillance Visual Approach to Runway zero three terminating at touchdown"?