Legality of flying as 'safety pilot'
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 156
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Legality of flying as 'safety pilot'
I'd appreciate opinions on the following situation:
SEP owner loses licence for medical reasons but understandably wishes to continue flying.
Insurance will cover a/c if owner flies with 'safety pilot', not necessarily an instructor.
Insurance stipulates named 'safety pilot' to be current on type and checked out by QFI.
So far, so good.
Questions:
1) Legally, is the 'safety pilot' PIC?
2) In case of an accident, incident, infringement, assume 'safety pilot' carries the can?
Assume 'yes' to both, but would like to hear from those who know.....
SEP owner loses licence for medical reasons but understandably wishes to continue flying.
Insurance will cover a/c if owner flies with 'safety pilot', not necessarily an instructor.
Insurance stipulates named 'safety pilot' to be current on type and checked out by QFI.
So far, so good.
Questions:
1) Legally, is the 'safety pilot' PIC?
2) In case of an accident, incident, infringement, assume 'safety pilot' carries the can?
Assume 'yes' to both, but would like to hear from those who know.....
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: LONDON
Posts: 366
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If he has really lost his licence then there is no safety pilot.
don't understand the insurance part. He owns an aircraft he cant fly?
I think there is a bit of confusion about this, there are circumstances where a medically restricted pilot but still licenced can fly with a "safety pilot who has NO status as flight crew ie: can't log P1 (with stipulated conditions on currency/type) provided he/she is given a written document outlining the medical problems.
The CAA do have a document to explain all but i can't find it.
don't understand the insurance part. He owns an aircraft he cant fly?
I think there is a bit of confusion about this, there are circumstances where a medically restricted pilot but still licenced can fly with a "safety pilot who has NO status as flight crew ie: can't log P1 (with stipulated conditions on currency/type) provided he/she is given a written document outlining the medical problems.
The CAA do have a document to explain all but i can't find it.
Broadly, yes.
If he has a current licence and medical, but it's considered a good idea to have you along "just in case", you can be a safety pilot, but you can't log it.
If he doesn't, you can fly as PiC and log it. But you must take full responsibility for the safe conduct of the flight. He can handle the controls, but can't log it.
Unless, you are an instructor, in which case you can still be captain, he can log it as instruction against some possible future date when he regains his medical.
G
If he has a current licence and medical, but it's considered a good idea to have you along "just in case", you can be a safety pilot, but you can't log it.
If he doesn't, you can fly as PiC and log it. But you must take full responsibility for the safe conduct of the flight. He can handle the controls, but can't log it.
Unless, you are an instructor, in which case you can still be captain, he can log it as instruction against some possible future date when he regains his medical.
G
Avoid imitations
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Wandering the FIR and cyberspace often at highly unsociable times
Posts: 14,576
Received 431 Likes
on
227 Posts
Surely, if the pilot has failed/lost his medical his licence is suspended and he cannot be PIC?
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Cambridge, England, EU
Posts: 3,443
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
Surely, if the pilot has failed/lost his medical his licence is suspended and he cannot be PIC?
The only conceivable point of having such a thing is that you, the person with the restricted medical, can log the time as P1. Otherwise you could simply fly as a passenger (with a non-instructor P1) or as a student (with an instructor P1).
I had such a restriction for a while. As far as I could see it was completely pointless, as I didn't need the P1 hours for anything, so I didn't see what it gave me over and above simply refusing the medical altogether.
So I just got an NPPL medical and flew with that instead (solo and with passengers), as was allowed at the time.
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: LONDON
Posts: 366
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Surely, if the pilot has failed/lost his medical his licence is suspended and he cannot be PIC?
Correct, as I said in reply, if he has really lost his medical and not just a condition that will require a safety pilot. Then he is "grounded" but can still fly as PU/t unless the CAA say no?
I Know someone who a while ago was diagnosed with diabetes (not sure of type) and was allowed to fly for a while with a safety pilot.
So I just got an NPPL medical and flew with that instead (solo and with passengers), as was allowed at the time.
Avoid imitations
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Wandering the FIR and cyberspace often at highly unsociable times
Posts: 14,576
Received 431 Likes
on
227 Posts
You can have a medical with a "can only fly with a safety pilot" restriction.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 156
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Many thanks for the comments.
I'll delve deeper with the CAA Medical Dept. as I don't know the full details yet.
One advantage, maybe, if the 'restricted' pilot can log P1, is that it relieves the 'safety pilot' of possible 'blame' in an accident.
I'm posting as the possible 'safety pilot'
I'll delve deeper with the CAA Medical Dept. as I don't know the full details yet.
One advantage, maybe, if the 'restricted' pilot can log P1, is that it relieves the 'safety pilot' of possible 'blame' in an accident.
I'm posting as the possible 'safety pilot'
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: The World
Posts: 1,271
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I admit, I am confused.
There is a former fellow pilot, who lost his license due to medical reason, correct?
He is not on a conditional "safety pilot only" medical, correct?
If so, questions are easy to answer.
1) There is no safety pilot, because without a valid license, the only one aboard is the PIC pilot. Even if it is a CRI, right seat would not be allowed, as a suspended license also prohibits treating the former pilot as student.
2) Of course, as he is the only legal pilot on board and by gods heaven, has to sit left.
There is a former fellow pilot, who lost his license due to medical reason, correct?
He is not on a conditional "safety pilot only" medical, correct?
If so, questions are easy to answer.
1) There is no safety pilot, because without a valid license, the only one aboard is the PIC pilot. Even if it is a CRI, right seat would not be allowed, as a suspended license also prohibits treating the former pilot as student.
2) Of course, as he is the only legal pilot on board and by gods heaven, has to sit left.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 156
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
.....has to sit left could be the start of a whole new thread.
I think I've got to get my facts right, re the exact medical restriction, and then return with the info.
I think I've got to get my facts right, re the exact medical restriction, and then return with the info.
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: LONDON
Posts: 366
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
as he is the only legal pilot on board and by gods heaven, has to sit left.
The flight manual will normally dictate were P1 sits. wish that old chestnut would go away.
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: The World
Posts: 1,271
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
FAA:
Pilot Medical Certification Questions and Answers
Who must hold a Medical Certificate?
Any person exercising the privileges of any of the following certificates: airline transport pilot certificate, commercial pilot certificate, private pilot certificate, recreational pilot certificate, flight instructor certificate (when acting as pilot in command if serving as a required pilot flight crewmember), flight engineer certificate, flight navigator certificate, or student pilot certificate.
https://www.faa.gov/licenses_certifi...faq/response3/
EASA:
An ex-pilot is past Solo and has to have a valid medical.
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/...01:0193:EN:PDF
Pilot Medical Certification Questions and Answers
Who must hold a Medical Certificate?
Any person exercising the privileges of any of the following certificates: airline transport pilot certificate, commercial pilot certificate, private pilot certificate, recreational pilot certificate, flight instructor certificate (when acting as pilot in command if serving as a required pilot flight crewmember), flight engineer certificate, flight navigator certificate, or student pilot certificate.
https://www.faa.gov/licenses_certifi...faq/response3/
EASA:
An ex-pilot is past Solo and has to have a valid medical.
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/...01:0193:EN:PDF
MED.A.030 Medical certificates
(a) A student pilot shall not fly solo unless that student pilot holds a medical certificate, as required for the relevant
licence
(a) A student pilot shall not fly solo unless that student pilot holds a medical certificate, as required for the relevant
licence
Operational Safety Pilot Limitation (OSL — Class 2 and LAPL privileges) (i) The holder of a medical certificate with an OSL limitation shall only operate an aircraft if another pilot fully qualified to act as pilot-in-command on the relevant class or type of aircraft is carried on board, the aircraft is fitted with dual controls and the other pilot occupies a seat at the controls
So, if I read that correctly - no medical, can fly non-solo as a student, OSL limitation, can fly PiC so long as there's another qualified pilot on board.
Is it really necessary to keep trying to interpret regulations in the most unhelpful manner available? It does seem to be a habit on some aviation bulletin boards.
G
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: UK,Twighlight Zone
Posts: 0
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Guys, this is really simple.
No medical means no flying. This is why we have medicals.
If he has lost his medical then he can only fly as a passenger. This will require a commander of the aircraft.
If he wants to log time then he could employ the services of an Instructor and fly as a student. It does not really achieve anything other than filling pages in a logbook.
A safety pilot is only ever used when the commander has an operational medical limitation mandating the carriage of a safety pilot. In this case the safety pilot must be qualified and current to take over the flight in case of incapacitatin of the commander. They log nothing until such a time they are required to take command which hopefully should be never.
No medical means no flying. This is why we have medicals.
If he has lost his medical then he can only fly as a passenger. This will require a commander of the aircraft.
If he wants to log time then he could employ the services of an Instructor and fly as a student. It does not really achieve anything other than filling pages in a logbook.
A safety pilot is only ever used when the commander has an operational medical limitation mandating the carriage of a safety pilot. In this case the safety pilot must be qualified and current to take over the flight in case of incapacitatin of the commander. They log nothing until such a time they are required to take command which hopefully should be never.
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: France
Posts: 342
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Genghis:
Being a CRI with a student whose medical requires a safety pilot certainly allows the CRI to log as PIC while the student logs as P/UT.
Yet I'm not sure that a CRI may instruct a student who has no medical at all, in that case the CRI is still the PIC, but the student becomes a simple passenger.
Being a CRI with a student whose medical requires a safety pilot certainly allows the CRI to log as PIC while the student logs as P/UT.
Yet I'm not sure that a CRI may instruct a student who has no medical at all, in that case the CRI is still the PIC, but the student becomes a simple passenger.