GLIDING: 'We fly nearly every day of the year'
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GLIDING: 'We fly nearly every day of the year'
I thought gliding was a summer sport, however it looks like the gliding club near me try to fly each day.
My question really is if I start learning now, will I be ready for the summer months when they come next year? I'm generally a quick learner so have no worries there, I am just wondering if you can get any meaningful flights in the winter months?
My question really is if I start learning now, will I be ready for the summer months when they come next year? I'm generally a quick learner so have no worries there, I am just wondering if you can get any meaningful flights in the winter months?
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This is an ideal time to start. I don't know where your local club is, but If they mostly rely on thermals for lift in the summer then starting now will mean that you will have a good grip on the basics of the launch, controlling the glider and flying the circuit before next spring, so when it starts to get thermic you can really concentrate on learning to stay up.
To give you an idea, my first flight in a glider was in October 91 and my first solo in November 92 and it took 49 winch launches. I was a student back then so it would have been quicker if I could have afforded to fly more frequently.
My first soaring flight was a wapping 29 minutes in April 92. It was my 21st flight and judging by my log book I was doing all of the flying by then
Do let us know how you get on!
To give you an idea, my first flight in a glider was in October 91 and my first solo in November 92 and it took 49 winch launches. I was a student back then so it would have been quicker if I could have afforded to fly more frequently.
My first soaring flight was a wapping 29 minutes in April 92. It was my 21st flight and judging by my log book I was doing all of the flying by then
Do let us know how you get on!
Yes - excellent time to start gliding - as long as cool weather does not worry you too much !
As DD said - you can do quite a bit of circuit flying over the winter and more advanced flying if your local club has Aerotow facility !
Hope you enjoy your flying !
As DD said - you can do quite a bit of circuit flying over the winter and more advanced flying if your local club has Aerotow facility !
Hope you enjoy your flying !
I started learning in November and went solo in March. The advantage of Winter flying is that your fellow students tend to be as mad as you. This led to a great cooperative spirit among the students which tended to disappear when the warmer weather brought out the more sane types in the Spring. This was at a professionally run club.
Not aware of any UK gliding club that packs up for the winter (can't afford to). The plus side of flying at this time of year is that you don't get many people coming for trial lessons & student tend to disappear unless their hardy. The downside is that winter time is traditionally the time to do the annual servicings so you may find part of the two seater fleet are off line for a couple of months.
Agree with all though - start flying now & you should be well on your way to solo by the spring.
Blue skies
Agree with all though - start flying now & you should be well on your way to solo by the spring.
Blue skies
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The hard bits (IMHO) of flying tend to be the takeoff and landing. The general flying bit generally comes fairly quickly (especially to the young!).
So assuming that you are not looking at gliding at a ridge site where soaring can take place all the year, learning through the winter at a winch launch site can be quite cost effective.
Aerotowing in winter is a lot more expensive for the time spent in the air as the time spent airborne may not be much greater than a good winch launch.
The downsides to learning in winter are
a) there is no colder place in the world than the middle of an airfield in winter - dress accordingly, especially waterproof insulated footwear (that can still fit on the rudder pedals)
b) Days are short
c) Time losses due to weather
Generally the answer we give to "how long to go solo" for a student with no previous flying experience (ab initio) is between 60 and 100 winch launches.
There are of course exceptions either way - usually related to age and how often you can fly.
Other flying experience of course helps!
(Ignore all the stories of "I went solo after 17 three minute launches with the ATC" - they may be true but scary)
So assuming that you are not looking at gliding at a ridge site where soaring can take place all the year, learning through the winter at a winch launch site can be quite cost effective.
Aerotowing in winter is a lot more expensive for the time spent in the air as the time spent airborne may not be much greater than a good winch launch.
The downsides to learning in winter are
a) there is no colder place in the world than the middle of an airfield in winter - dress accordingly, especially waterproof insulated footwear (that can still fit on the rudder pedals)
b) Days are short
c) Time losses due to weather
Generally the answer we give to "how long to go solo" for a student with no previous flying experience (ab initio) is between 60 and 100 winch launches.
There are of course exceptions either way - usually related to age and how often you can fly.
Other flying experience of course helps!
(Ignore all the stories of "I went solo after 17 three minute launches with the ATC" - they may be true but scary)
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When the ATC sent students solo after a small number of winch launches, typically in a T21 or T31, they weren't trying to teach them to be glider pilots. They were teaching them to fly round a circuit 'by numbers', generally at a very big airfield, and land safely. So far as I am aware, they didn't have a high rate of serious accidents and they had a very large number of students who were very proud of their achievements!
Incidentally, when my father, in the early 1950's, during his RAF career, found himself in charge of all the RAF gliding in the north of England, he thought that maybe he ought to check out what they were doing. They gave him an instructor certificate after 6 winch launches! I think he would be the first to admit that he was pleased he never had to follow up by using his newly earned qualification. Instructing on Meteors at CFS was one thing, gliders quite another!
Incidentally, when my father, in the early 1950's, during his RAF career, found himself in charge of all the RAF gliding in the north of England, he thought that maybe he ought to check out what they were doing. They gave him an instructor certificate after 6 winch launches! I think he would be the first to admit that he was pleased he never had to follow up by using his newly earned qualification. Instructing on Meteors at CFS was one thing, gliders quite another!
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Aerotow can be more cost effective than winch launches if the tug is a Eurofox or similar. At my club £18 for a 2,000' tow which gives 18 minutes or so of free flight, £8.50 for a winch launch which gives 5-6 minutes of free flight. Although the free flight time is similar there is only one circuit & landing with the aerotow so for early ab initios who are learning to actually fly the glider they get more stick time.
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Thanks guys. I've got more info from the club now so know a little more.
One thing I am a little confused about is how much it would cost me. I have the charges per launch/minute but that doesn't mean much to me!
Lets say I went down this Saturday... how much should I expect to spend? (Or how many flights could I get and how long will they be?)
Might be a bit of a specific question but it's always useful to know! Don't want to go down expecting to spend £30 and end up spending £300!!!
One thing I am a little confused about is how much it would cost me. I have the charges per launch/minute but that doesn't mean much to me!
Lets say I went down this Saturday... how much should I expect to spend? (Or how many flights could I get and how long will they be?)
Might be a bit of a specific question but it's always useful to know! Don't want to go down expecting to spend £30 and end up spending £300!!!
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(Ignore all the stories of "I went solo after 17 three minute launches with the ATC" - they may be true but scary)
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One thing I am a little confused about is how much it would cost me.
In winter, you should not expect any significant thermals, but be grateful if you happen to stumble upon one. So the majority of your flights will be 5-6 minutes (if winch launched) or about 15 minutes (if towed). Add to that some 5-10 minutes maneuvering on the ground to get the glider back to the launch point, ready for the next launch. This means an aircraft will make somewhere between 3 and 6 flights per hour.
The next variable is the ratio of students to instructors. Since there are hands required on the ground too, that ratio is typically 1 in 3 to 1 in 5. Which means that if everything runs smoothly you can get a flight in maybe once in every 1.5 hours. If you're lucky, more. If you're unlucky, less. On average, count on 3 to 5 flights per day.
Of course if you're near a ridge (so you can ridge soaring) or if it's one of those rare winter days with sufficient thermal activity to stay up longer, then the total number of flights will go down, but the individual flights will be longer and more rewarding.
Since it doesn't cost anything to fly (no fuel costs) but only to launch a glider, flights are typically a fixed cost, regardless of their duration.
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Quote:
(Ignore all the stories of "I went solo after 17 three minute launches with the ATC" - they may be true but scary)
They are true. I've still got my little green booklet, my "A and B certificate" issued by the BGA/ Royal Aero Club, dated 3.6.1972 to show for it. Nought to solo at RAF Swanton Morley in one week, at the age of sixteen.
(Ignore all the stories of "I went solo after 17 three minute launches with the ATC" - they may be true but scary)
They are true. I've still got my little green booklet, my "A and B certificate" issued by the BGA/ Royal Aero Club, dated 3.6.1972 to show for it. Nought to solo at RAF Swanton Morley in one week, at the age of sixteen.
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Without knowing the costs at your local club, nor your ability, I can comment on what I have found after 30 years instructing.
It will take you around 20 take off's and landings before you will feel confident that you have the correct speed control and aiming point technique. At that point you will quickly start grasping the variations of joining the circuit too high, too low, etc. Baulked approaches and side slipping approaches (air brake failure) will be next. If you have access to both aero tow and winch, then plan on aero tow for air exercises to give you the maximum time on each exercise, and winch for circuit practice.
Overall expect around 40 - 50 circuits and 8 - 10 hours before solo. At that point you are about 20% of the way to being a qualified Glider Pilot.
I have sent pilots solo with a lot less than that, and some a lot more. (only ever two who I considered could never solo). I'm not sure how much the UK syllabus varies from the NZ one. But we do concentrate on paddock selection for outlandings, flying a circuit without an altimeter, and eventually without any instruments.
As for gliding in winter? Best time for lee waves and high altitude flying.
It will take you around 20 take off's and landings before you will feel confident that you have the correct speed control and aiming point technique. At that point you will quickly start grasping the variations of joining the circuit too high, too low, etc. Baulked approaches and side slipping approaches (air brake failure) will be next. If you have access to both aero tow and winch, then plan on aero tow for air exercises to give you the maximum time on each exercise, and winch for circuit practice.
Overall expect around 40 - 50 circuits and 8 - 10 hours before solo. At that point you are about 20% of the way to being a qualified Glider Pilot.
I have sent pilots solo with a lot less than that, and some a lot more. (only ever two who I considered could never solo). I'm not sure how much the UK syllabus varies from the NZ one. But we do concentrate on paddock selection for outlandings, flying a circuit without an altimeter, and eventually without any instruments.
As for gliding in winter? Best time for lee waves and high altitude flying.
"Since it doesn't cost anything to fly (no fuel costs) but only to launch a glider, flights are typically a fixed cost, regardless of their duration."
Not so if using a club aircraft in the UK - most, if not all, clubs charge a fee per minute airborne time on top of the launch.
Not so if using a club aircraft in the UK - most, if not all, clubs charge a fee per minute airborne time on top of the launch.
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The ones I've seen only charge a fee per minute if you exceed, say, 30 minutes flight time. Are you saying some charge a fee per minute from the moment of launch? That seems a lot of administration for very little gain.
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Prices vary a lot between UK clubs. The big "professional" 7 days/week clubs are generally more expensive than the weekend-only clubs which are generally operated by unpaid volunteers. 30 to 35 pence per minute of flight is about par for a two-seater glider but the instructor is normally free!
A winch launch is generally around £7 to £8 these days. Aerotows to 2000' £25 to £35.
Winch launch heights vary a lot between clubs. It essentially depends on the length of cable which can be laid out. Expect to get about 30% of the horizontal cable run as launch height on a light wind day. As the wind gets stronger down the cable run you get free height!
So if you are looking around winch launch clubs ask what is their typical launch height.
The arguments as to which is better to learn on, winch or aerotow can go on forever. The best of both worlds is a club which can offer both.
A winch launch is generally around £7 to £8 these days. Aerotows to 2000' £25 to £35.
Winch launch heights vary a lot between clubs. It essentially depends on the length of cable which can be laid out. Expect to get about 30% of the horizontal cable run as launch height on a light wind day. As the wind gets stronger down the cable run you get free height!
So if you are looking around winch launch clubs ask what is their typical launch height.
The arguments as to which is better to learn on, winch or aerotow can go on forever. The best of both worlds is a club which can offer both.