Needless steep departures

[9 lives]

I saw it again yesterday - an aircraft takeoff from a runway with lots of room, and no obstacles. Just after leaving the ground, he pulled up logarithmically, and climb steeply until the inevitable point where the nose had to be lowered very noticeably. This aircraft was a medium sized twin engined government patrol aircraft. I assure readers that a steep climb out had nothing whatever to do with the role of the aircraft, nor any necessary operational requirement. Just showing off, or self amusement. Hi risk, zero reward.

While visiting a local private fly in last summer, I watched the departures of about twenty of the guests. About half (and mostly the more new owners or pilots) seemed to feel the need to impress onlookers with very steep departures, until hanging on the stall, upon which the nose had to be lowered. Gosh, how impressed I am to see a C150 rocket staggeringly skyward - not.

This immature behaviour puts the occupants of the aircraft at great risk in the case of an engine failure (which has increased likelihood at these pitch attitudes). In yesterday's twin, I opine that he would maintain flight with the remaining engine, after lots of altitude spent accelerating to Vmca to do it. But why risk this one of only two special purpose patrol aircraft, and the occupants?

I think to the lyrics of the War song, "Low Rider" :"Low rider drives a little slower". Maybe it's more cool to show off your aircraft by flying it in a mature way, and demonstrating your good airmanship, rather than how much risk you can create.

A good friend of mine who used to fly this way all the time stopped a couple of years back, after breaking his back in the crash which resulted from an EFATO, and the inability to enter a glide with enough reserve energy to flare for a landing, he just crashed. The landing path was perfect for a good approach and landing, but he just did it wrong.

So now I'm proud of 39 years of safe flying, and the fact that I can just takeoff safely. If I need to climb away steeply to clear an obstacle, I will, otherwise I'm just going to fly as though my mother, wife and daughters are watching...

Rant over ('till I see the next one!)

[OhNoCB]

I do this sometimes when I am flying alone or with another like-minded pilot, though maybe not the point of hanging on a stall or going below/too close to VMCA. I don't do it to show off, I just do it to have fun, whether there are people around to see it or not.

I am not sure exactly how much more likely an engine is to fail whenever you are in a steep climb rather than a shallow one, but either way we take risks every day and many of them just self amusement, some will go base jumping some will drive a bit faster than they should, it's all about what is an acceptable risk to yourself.

I wouldn't personally do it with passengers though.

[AdamFrisch]

There might be noise abatement departure procedures or recommendations that he complied with.

[Radix]

............

[glendalegoon]

It might just be called PRACTICE.

When I was instructing, Short Field Takeoff over a 50' obstacle was required to be demonstrated for both private and commercial certification.

Do you know for a fact that the Patrol craft wasn't in use for a check ride in the military sense? Perhaps they were to reposition to a difficult airfield soon.


In the Piper Turbo Arrow 3, if you really fly it like the book says, that thing will JUMP into the air and clear the imaginary obstacle like nobody's business.

But you are right on the edge. But then, that's what professional pilots just might have to do.

I am not encouraging showing off, but proficiency , well practiced, is part of the profession.

Let me know when you have taken off in a jet from KSNA. And you have to do it that way...hmmmm.

[Rod1]

I spent many happy hours gliding off the winch. Cable brakes were common but strangely I am still alive. Give me altitude over speed. I have only had one EFATO, crank snapped (manufacturing fault), fortunately I had the height to avoid a number of arrears which would have caused me big problems.

Rod1

[davydine]

Winch Launch Cable Break

To be fair Rod1 with a winch launch you have a limited time to get as much altitude as possible, that said, I was always taught to transition in to the full climb gently to avoid climbing too steeply low down.

I know one person that ended up in hospital (actually two including the instructor) and a k13 that suffered severe damage because they had a low cable break and did not have time/height to lower the nose and regain flying speed before they hit the ground.

[Crash one]

Well I'm afraid I agree with Step turn on this subject, I've watched a few at my local doing it and it seem to be for the purpose of showing off, either "look at me" or "look how powerful my aircraft is". It isn't necessary to practice combat departures in a PA28 or the like.
I've also had a few cable breaks at low level, 50/100ft and yanking the nose up on take off is not the solution, quite the reverse in fact.

[Echo Romeo]

Ah yes. The steep climb out after take off, looks fantastic in a F18 on full reheat. But a PA28, really.... wouldn't impress anyone, would it ?

[Heston]

Looks good with an F-18, but when we had real aircraft the Lightning doing a reheat take off and climb looked good and, more importantly, SOUNDED AWESOME.

[snchater]

Many years ago I witnessed a fatal accident following an unnecessary steep takeoff:

http://www.aaib.gov.uk/cms_resources...pdf_500567.pdf

I was one of the first on the scene and pronounced the pilot dead.

In my professional career (anaesthetist) I attended many gruesome occurances (stabbings,shootings,RTAs etc.). However this needless loss of life, on what had been an idylic autumn fly-in at my local strip, haunts me to this day.

Please resist the temptation to show off on take-off.

Safe flying

G-BHIB

[Torque Tonight]

Step Turn, in my previous career flying 'government' aircraft we often had to perform departures such as you describe for tactical reasons, and in order to do them in war zones, we practiced them back in our home country. Your assessment that they were just showing off may very well be flawed. Easy on the rants when making assumptions about what other people have to do.

[Capetonian]

I was invited to fly with someone who had a Piper Seneca. I had no knowledge to indicate that he was not a competent and safe pilot, or I would not have even considered flying with him. The first take off, flight and landing were normal until we returned to pick up my girlfriend. He then, showing off, became a different person in the pilot's seat and performed a takeoff which he described as 'hanging the aircraft on the props', and some very tight manoeuvres which made me feel queasy and unsafe. That was of course the last time I flew with him.

Isn't the equivalent of a stupid 20 year old in a Renault Clito with oversized exhausts caning it away from the lights and then having to brake when he meets slower traffic?

[maxred]

pilot's seat and performed a takeoff which he described as 'hanging the aircraft on the props', and some very tight manoeuvres which made me feel queasy and unsafe. That was of course the last time I flew with him.

Mmmmmm, bit like an instructor I flew with recently.

Sorry, there is no excuse for showing off, and those pretending it may be a training exercise are stretching the boundaries a bit. I have witnessed many departures, and landings for that matter, where it was evident that a bit of a cavalier attitude may have crept in. Air Show take offs, are, in my experience best left for Air Shows

[PURPLE PITOT]

The only thing you will see at air shows these days is aircraft being operated within the requirements of the performance manual. Practicing performance to/ldgs, when done within the limits of the manual is to be applauded, you never know when you might need it.

Anything beyond that, is of course dangerously cavalier.

[fireflybob]

If you are flying the a/c in accordance with the POH (aka Flight Manual) that is perfectly acceptable.

If you are doing manoeuvres such as climbing out below Vx or Vy that would not be appropriate and would reduce the safety margin.

[maxred]

Anything beyond that, is of course dangerously cavalier.

That wil include the take off roll in the Yak 52, inverted at 50', then roll into upright, gear still extended, and up into the blue yonder

Time for a cigarette....

[Crash one]

I was once witness to a Lightning that over cooked the takeoff and spun the thing going up. Why does such a subject require discussion? Unless you have a military requirement for such & therefore a military training regime to follow there is no need to do this.
I'm all for a bit of hooling about but I've always got an "out".

[PURPLE PITOT]

Maxred. i think you will find that is within the limits of the Yak manual

[Jetblu]

Absolutely reckless if you ask me.

Rotate, lift off, level off, clean up and accelerate and straight under the power lines.