Out of date GPS
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Joined: Jun 2010
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From: London
Out of date GPS
So, why is it, every plane I have ever hired with a GPS is out of date? Maybe I have hired 6 different planes with various Garmin or Avidyne things and all of them have been out of date. Why? too expensive?
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Joined: Feb 2000
Aviation Qualifications: CPL
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From: UK
And there was me thinking that it was perfectly reasonable to use the GPS as backup for my up to date paper chart and old fashioned navigation technique. And that even if the airspace moves, in my experience a GPS will still tell me where I am, which way I'm going, how fast, and where the airfields are.
G
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,413
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From: England & Scotland
Genghis - it's absolutely reasonable to demand stringent standards for something that cannot be your primary navigation system.
The 2x GPS in my cab are both running out of date maps. Similar position in my earlier 2 rides. By about 4 updates on average. Not actually found a problem yet. However, one day when they re-route the heli lanes or move EGKR 35 miles South of current location I will definitely need to update
The 2x GPS in my cab are both running out of date maps. Similar position in my earlier 2 rides. By about 4 updates on average. Not actually found a problem yet. However, one day when they re-route the heli lanes or move EGKR 35 miles South of current location I will definitely need to update
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 3,443
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From: Cambridge, England, EU
And there was me thinking that it was perfectly reasonable to use the GPS as backup for my up to date paper chart and old fashioned navigation technique. And that even if the airspace moves, in my experience a GPS will still tell me where I am, which way I'm going, how fast, and where the airfields are.
It's different of course if you're renting a plane in order to navigate in IMC using GPS ... in which case you make sure you know what you're buying, and you quite probably get what you pay for. And the same fleet may have some of each, which is fine so long as you know which is which when booking.
Joined: Oct 2007
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From: Moray,Scotland,U.K.
Both Garmins in all of the C172s I've hired in Colorado had in-date data. In the UK I've never had in-date Garmin data in the few aircraft I've hired. And the oldest Colorado aircraft was less than 10 years old. And fewer $/hour than £/hour in the UK. And no landing charges.
Joined: Jan 2008
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From: All at sea
I don't know if this is a Garmin thing, but almost to the day that my 296 reached 10 years old, it stopped receiving satellites.
As I only used it in my own home built aircraft as a VFR backup, I had never bothered with the hassle of updating it.
Problem was, it fell over the very day I was rather hoping it would be a help on a Bass Strait crossing from mainland Australia to Tasmania in some barely VFR weather.
Certainly if you are hiring an aircraft, it would be reasonable to require all equipment to be 'in date'. In some jurisdictions that is also a legal requirement when the aircraft is available for hire, unless said aircraft has a MEL specifically allowing otherwise.
As I only used it in my own home built aircraft as a VFR backup, I had never bothered with the hassle of updating it.
Problem was, it fell over the very day I was rather hoping it would be a help on a Bass Strait crossing from mainland Australia to Tasmania in some barely VFR weather.
Certainly if you are hiring an aircraft, it would be reasonable to require all equipment to be 'in date'. In some jurisdictions that is also a legal requirement when the aircraft is available for hire, unless said aircraft has a MEL specifically allowing otherwise.
Joined: May 2008
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From: UK
Don't think it's a Garmin thing, I've got a date Garmin 92 which is over 20 years old and still works just fine. The map is around 10 years out of date, but they haven't moved the airfields to the direct to function still gives very useful data, and a chart gives airspace info.
Joined: May 1999
Aviation Qualifications: ATP+Mil
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From: Quite near 'An aerodrome somewhere in England'
Having had 2 data cards stolen from GPS units in our club's aircraft, as CFI I resolved not to waste any more money on buying new ones. But these weren't moving map GPS units (GPS 150 and GNC 250), so provided that the correct lat/long or aerodrome names had been entered in the route, the display showed DTK, TRK, GS and ETA - with the CDI bar showing cross-track error. Perfectly adequate for PPL flying, in my view.
Airspace avoidance was achieved by pre-flight planning on a current chart.
But a moving map unit, if it displays airspace, really should be kept up-to-date. Particularly in the impatient 'get in and go' current way many people fly these days.
Airspace avoidance was achieved by pre-flight planning on a current chart.
But a moving map unit, if it displays airspace, really should be kept up-to-date. Particularly in the impatient 'get in and go' current way many people fly these days.
Joined: Jul 2007
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From: 51.50N 1W (ish)
What constitutes 'up to date'?
The Jepp database is updated on a 30 day cycle. Is a database 31 days old (previous cycle) out of date if used for VFR flying, when the AIP has not notified any airspace changes?
The Jepp database does not incude TRAs, so you still need to use other data from the relevant NOTAMs.
Most UK VFR pilots I know update annually, on the next cycle after the half-mill map change, and use NOTAMs and preflight planning to remain legal.
The Jepp database is updated on a 30 day cycle. Is a database 31 days old (previous cycle) out of date if used for VFR flying, when the AIP has not notified any airspace changes?
The Jepp database does not incude TRAs, so you still need to use other data from the relevant NOTAMs.
Most UK VFR pilots I know update annually, on the next cycle after the half-mill map change, and use NOTAMs and preflight planning to remain legal.
Joined: Sep 2002
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From: Savannah GA & Portsmouth UK
An out of date GPS can be dangerous.
I used to have a Decca Navigator too, luckily I got rid of that long ago.
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 365
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From: LONDON
Does being out of date stop it's navigational ability to fly the route as programmed. I used my old Garmin 90 for years without an update because the "Nav" page still did what it said on the tin IE:- Heading, X-Track error , speed, eta etc,
Never realised how dangerous it all was, I am perfectly safe now my Aera 500 has had it's yearly update last May
Never realised how dangerous it all was, I am perfectly safe now my Aera 500 has had it's yearly update last May
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 814
Likes: 52
From: Lechlade, Glos.UK
My point about an out of date sat nav being dangerous is that if one relies on it (as many do) you can run into big trouble. But of course one should reference your navigation to an up-to-date map. Correct me if I am wrong but it is a legal mandatory requirement to carry one.
My main point, however is that if you hire something you enter in to a contract with the owner who has a duty to supply what he states you are getting.
If he informs you that the sat nav is out of date, that is ok.
However, many of us do not update our Sat Navs every month as that is not cost effective for single owners. But then we are aware that errors may be inherent.
My main point, however is that if you hire something you enter in to a contract with the owner who has a duty to supply what he states you are getting.
If he informs you that the sat nav is out of date, that is ok.
However, many of us do not update our Sat Navs every month as that is not cost effective for single owners. But then we are aware that errors may be inherent.
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 376
Likes: 31
From: UK
Can anyone point me to a piece of legislation that defines what is acceptable for use as a primary VFR navigation chart, and whether electronic is acceptable in place of paper ?
As Jeppesen have discontinued their European VFR paper charts it is becoming increasingly difficult to acquire paper versions for certain EU countries.
Thanks
As Jeppesen have discontinued their European VFR paper charts it is becoming increasingly difficult to acquire paper versions for certain EU countries.
Thanks