How not to do a soft field takeoff.
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,546
Likes: 2
From: Oxford, UK
Nosewheel aircraft on soft field. And just to add interest, tall trees at the end of the run! He never had it flying at all, tried to hoik it up so the attitude was nose high, angle of attack too high, stall, aircraft actually drops the wing with the start of a spin....
I saw a glider do that once. Failed winch launch, instructor did not take over in time....but both pilots survived. No fire.
I saw a glider do that once. Failed winch launch, instructor did not take over in time....but both pilots survived. No fire.
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,876
Likes: 1
From: Here
To be fair 
I don't think he ever had the option to 'accelerate in ground effect'. It was either pop it in the air and stall, or just drive to his destination!
What is interesting is that there appears to be lots and lots of space behind him before he starts his roll...
I don't think he ever had the option to 'accelerate in ground effect'. It was either pop it in the air and stall, or just drive to his destination!What is interesting is that there appears to be lots and lots of space behind him before he starts his roll...
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 177
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From: Rennes
My guess is he could have made it, even given the mid-field starting point (perhaps it was too boggy behind). What really did a number on the take-off run, it seems to me, is that twice (at 0:07 and 0:15) he dragged his tail along the ground, killing whatever possibility of accelerating to flying speed he might have had.
The extraordinary thing is that he ever believed that this is how one takes off from a soft surface. Perhaps his technique might have worked if there had been a howling headwind of 30-40 kt, but otherwise the likelihood of avoiding a pile-up was effectively zero. Given identical control inputs, that would probably have been true even if he had been departing from a paved runway.
The extraordinary thing is that he ever believed that this is how one takes off from a soft surface. Perhaps his technique might have worked if there had been a howling headwind of 30-40 kt, but otherwise the likelihood of avoiding a pile-up was effectively zero. Given identical control inputs, that would probably have been true even if he had been departing from a paved runway.
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 5,982
Likes: 1
From: In the boot of my car!
What a shame! He kept the nose wheel well clear sadly not enough flying speed and became airborne too soon.
I wonder what the airfield elevation and temperature was as both may have played a part in this.
I do nonetheless feel sorry for the guy not an easy airfield
pace
I wonder what the airfield elevation and temperature was as both may have played a part in this.
I do nonetheless feel sorry for the guy not an easy airfield
pace
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,807
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From: Ansião (PT)
What is interesting is that there appears to be lots and lots of space behind him before he starts his roll...
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 242
Likes: 1
From: Oz
I am just (or was till I hit a kangaroo on my motorcycle) learning to do soft field take off now, so interesting to watch this. I didn't think that ground affect would make that amount of difference in a high wing aircraft.
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,694
Likes: 15
From: Wellington,NZ
You can tell how it does, because the aircraft is almost controllable whilst in ground effect (about 10-15'), though it's not really going anywhere (due to the 'control' technique used, which is coarse, and too nose high) but within seconds of managing to coax the poor old girl out of ground effect, it stalls and spuds in.
Joined: Nov 2004
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From: Perth - Western Australia
"Exactly 20 seconds after firewalling the throttle, Rupert suddenly realised - to his great consternation - what a total con that last eBay purchase of his, was - the book he'd bought, entitled, "Flying For Dummies .... " 
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,546
Likes: 2
From: Oxford, UK
Nosewheel, tailwheel, which is better for rough, boggy strips?
Wouldn't hurt to walk over the ground first. Where are the worst bits to avoid?
And begin at the beginning, not half way down the run.
I mostly flew a taildragger, Supercub 150, so PLENTY of power to weight, which is why it is used for pulling up gliders.....a 180 cub even more so....though with the heavy 180 hp engine fitted, the cub may tip over on its nose if you don't remember to hold the stick back.
The Cub starts with nose in the air, tailwheel on the ground. As power and speed increase, the nose moves down! to a level attitude, which presents the correct angle of attack. Holding the level attitude, with full power, the Cub lifts off in ground effect. STILL holding the level attitude, speed increases. There is no doubt, we rise into the air, and so does the glider, if one is following on the end of the rope!
You can't just hoik the old girl into the air, she goes when she is ready, not before.
Wouldn't hurt to walk over the ground first. Where are the worst bits to avoid?
And begin at the beginning, not half way down the run.
I mostly flew a taildragger, Supercub 150, so PLENTY of power to weight, which is why it is used for pulling up gliders.....a 180 cub even more so....though with the heavy 180 hp engine fitted, the cub may tip over on its nose if you don't remember to hold the stick back.
The Cub starts with nose in the air, tailwheel on the ground. As power and speed increase, the nose moves down! to a level attitude, which presents the correct angle of attack. Holding the level attitude, with full power, the Cub lifts off in ground effect. STILL holding the level attitude, speed increases. There is no doubt, we rise into the air, and so does the glider, if one is following on the end of the rope!
You can't just hoik the old girl into the air, she goes when she is ready, not before.
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 381
Likes: 0
From: Scotland
when she is ready, not before.
Tailwheel in my opinion is the best for soft surface with big wheels it is definitely the best, with sufficient power to get the tail up you only have 2 wheels on the ground so it reduces rolling resistance. Although I imagine the difference isn't enormous but the big wheels probably make the most improvement on soft perf.