Struggling with PFLs

[Cows getting bigger]

Trim.
Don't rush.
Remember the wind - landing into a short feild with a 10kt headwind is far better than landing into a slightly longer feild with a 10kt tailwind
Don't rush.
Forget all the checks, radio calls etc until you are set-up, trimmed at a sensible glide speed, around your selected landing point.
Don't rush.
Make sure your aiming point is at laest halfway don the field - you can finesse this later.
Don't rush.
Never, never never try to stretch the glide. You will kill yourself if you stall/spin whereas is unlikely that you will kill yourself rolling into the hedge at the far end of the field.

All of the above is relative tosh if you can find an instructor who will spend lots of time with you. If you are at the PFL stage you should now be experiencing at least one 'engine failure' on every single instructional trip you do.

[justmaybe]

Getting to grips with a single engine aircraft that has lost power is a critical part of both initial and recurrent training. Make sure your instructor has demonstrated and allowed you to fly the aircraft in terms of glide attitude (in different configs)
rather than concentrating primarily on IAS. Whether you are taught SLA or the 'square' pattern doesn't matter too much, as long as you adopt a consistent system that gets you consistently lined up on your landing site that allows a touchdown within the first 100m. In reality you will need lots of demo's and practise - this is not a one hour sortie and then move on to the next exercise, and it is also a measure of your instructors' ability and experience

[Chuck Ellsworth]

Sorry BPF, but I reall do think that your 80% figure is much overstated.

Same here Genghis, BPF keeps using that claim about engine failures.

here is a copy.

1) 80 % of all engine failures are caused by the pilot with carb ice and fuel mismanagement/fuel exhaustion the biggest percentage. The best way to deal with engine failures is to not let the engine fail in the first place.

The statement as written in my opinion is difficult to believe.

[Big Pistons Forever]

Originally Posted by Genghis the Engineer

None - and yes a lot of my flying is with Rotax 2-strokes, but only one of my total engine failures (the blocked fuel filter); the remainder are a mixture of Jabiru and Gypsy Major, the two partials are a Rotax 2-stroke (the fuel pump), and a certified Franklin 4-stroke (the unexplained). But I treat all single engine flying (which is virtually all of my flying) on the assumption that the engine may stop, and I'm sure you do as well.


One of us is mis-reading the reports somewhere, so I thought I'd have a look at the last half dozen AAIB bulletins:-

Air Accidents Investigation: April 2014
BAe-146: engine fire on the ground
Islander: engine cowling came off due to poorly fastener
C150: Probably carb icing
TB10: Sudden stoppage, reasons unknown
TB10: Engine fire due faulty carb
RV9A: Stoppage downwind, probably either contaminated fuel or failed bolts.

Air Accidents Investigation: March 2014
PA38: Mis-management of aircraft / use of unleaded / all sorts of problems

Air Accidents Investigation: February 2014
Cassutt Racer: Used mixture instead of carb heat downwind
X'Air: Unknown

Air Accidents Investigation: January 2014
Beech 36: Possible birdstrike
AX2000: Reason unknown
Kolb: Prop shaft failure

Air Accidents Investigation: December 2013
A330: Turbine blade failure
CH601: Structural failure of propeller

Air Accidents Investigation: November 2013
G115: Mis-assembly of propellers
Piper Cub: Carb Ice
PA28: Incorrect fuel valve selection
P2002: Inconclusive, but possibly carb ice, plug fouling, or fuel starvation
Kolb Twinstar: Fuel starvation, maybe, reason for that unclear - possibly a fuel pump failure?
X'Air: Internal mechanical failure of the engine


So, some carb ice, and some mishandling, and some 2-stroke or uncertified engines. But all in a fairly small minority.

Sorry BPF, but I reall do think that your 80% figure is much overstated.

G

Genghis. I guess in retrospect I did not define what I meant very well. The 80 % figure was meant to apply to the original poster who was doing a PPL in a certified airplane. By the 80 % figure I meant that if you are flying behind a Continental or Lycoming engine in a SEP which applies to almost everyone who is training for the PPL and I would think to the majority of the PPL's reading this forum then yes I think if you look at the long term data you can conclude that about 80 % of the time a SEP has an engine failure and has to do a forced approach the pilots actions/inactions/neglect caused the engine to fail.

In fact if you look at the examples in your 6 Months worth of AAIB reports of engine failures in Continental/lycoming SEP's and divide them up it three categories of

1) 80 % ers failures caused by the pilot

2) 20 % ers failures which were not caused by the pilot or could have reasonable been foreseen by the pilot, and

3) Not enough information to definitively assign them to either group

you get


80 %

-C 150 (Contintental O 200) carb ice
-PA 38 ( Lycoming O 235) taking off in a clearly unairworthy aircraft
-Cassute racer (Contintental O 200) selecting the mixture control instead of carb heat
- Piper Cub (Lycoming O 320) carb ice
- Pa 28 (Lycoming 0 320) incorrect fuel selector setting

20 %

- Grob 115 ( Lycoming O 320) prop failure

and not sure

- TB 10 engine failed but no fault found in engine

- RV 6 engine failed due to either fuel contamination which would make it an 80 % or failed bolts which would make it a 20 %

So 5 definitive caused by the pilot and 1 where the pilot could not reasonably have prevented the failure. So even in this relatively small sample size a lot more engines failed because of the pilot, than not. If you analyse several years worth of data particularly using a large sample size like the US you get the same numbers, 80/20

The bottom line is a bit more care and attention on the part of the basics would mean there would have been several less wrecks in that 6 Month period.

The so what to me is that flight training is not doing enough to educate pilots on where, in the real world, pilots are screwing up and how to prevent it. So maybe instead of arcane discussion on what kind of crops are the best to force land on and an emphasis on following lengthy mnemonics on field selection, we should get back to the basics.

These are the things you need to pay attention to all the time so you don't cause the engine to fail and if the engine does fail these are the actions to use to get it back and then if you still have no power here is how to judge your glide so that the aircraft will get to a chosen touchdown point under good control.

Finally reading the full list of accidents for each month I see the same steady drip,drip,drip of "lost control on take/off landing". Pilots are not wrecking airplanes because they can't fly a perfect PFL they are wrecking aircraft because they can't takeoff or land

Maybe we should spend more training time on that .......

[Big Pistons Forever]

Further to my last post.

I was very lucky because as a young PPL I often flew with a hugely experienced been there, done that retired professional pilot. His tips and advice were hugely valuable in furthering my competence as a pilot

I still remember my first flight. Shortly after we leveled off he covered the engine gauges and asked me where the needles were. UMMMM in the green I replied, yes but where exactly in the green was the response. I did not have a clue and his point was made. Knowing where the needle is pointing means if suddenly something changes you will know it and a sudden change in the important gauges, oil pressure, oil temp, fuel pressure, CHT; is never good.

The second lesson was furthering my understanding of how the airplane and its engine worked and therefore how to conduct quick and effective trouble shooting when bad things start happening.

In SEP's I have had one full failure ( Cessna 150 with a Continetal O 200 ) and one partial failure ( Cessna 172 with a Lycoming O320 )

Neither one resulted in a forced landing as a direct result of what I had learned above.

The total failure was in the flying school C 150 Aerobat. We were climbing out on a flight to the aerobatic box when I noticed that the oil pressure gauge was one needle width lower than it was always at. I told the student to immediately turn around and head for the airport. On the way back the oil pressure went to zero and on short final to the home airport runway, I shut down the engine which was now starting to shake. The oil pump drive gear had failed and the engine was ruined. If I had not being paying attention the engine would have failed in the aerobatic box which was in a heavily wooded area with out any very good places to land.

The partial failure occurred in cruise flight in a C 172. All of sudden the engine starting barking and shaking a with big drop in RPM. I immediately did the cause check so carb heat on, fuel on both quantity checked, mixture rich and mags on both. No change and given the symptoms I deduced an ignition problem. As soon as I switched to left mag only the engine instantly returned to normal. So I flew home adjusting my flight path to stay over landable areas and made an uneventful landing at my home airport. The cause was a failed gear in the right magneto which when it failed advanced the spark 2o degrees. The engine now had dueling spark plugs and it did not like it one bit.

So 2 forced landings prevented, not by skygodly powers, but by attention to the dials in flight and a bit of effort in understanding how the airplane works.....

[foxmoth]

BPF,
I think your point about partial failures is a good one, but the OP was having problems with the PFL itself which IS a requirement, the rest of it he was not asking about and should be taught anyway by his instructor - though I accept many instructors do not cover this as they should.

[Windrusher]

Lots of good points, giving lots of things to think about: just don't let them get in the way of maintaining attitude and airspeed, and flying/controlling the aeroplane until it's come to a halt. A stall/spin while fussing could really ruin your day.

Windrusher