Ukppl(a) - now able to instruct? Fi(a) & afi(a)

[Long Drive.]

Is it correct that the holder of a UK PPL(A) using a recent ANO amendment can now undertake a FI's course and offer instruction. ORS4 No 1001 the CAA notice finishes by saying 'This exemption allows UK PPL(A) / CRI (SPA) holders to receive remuneration for aerial work which consists of flying instruction in a club environment' LD.

[The500man]

I think that is true from what I've seen, but I don't think (may be wrong) that a PPL holder with a FI rating can instruct PPL students. I think I read it was for NPPL type stuff?

[sapperkenno]

Ukppl(a) - now able to instruct? Fi(a) & afi(a)

Bit behind the times, as it's been this way for quite a while now. I think paid was from April last year.
As a PPL FI, WITH CPL THEORETICAL KNOWLEDGE, you can instruct PPL/NPPL etc. Without the CPL written exams, you can only instruct for the LAPL/NPPL. As a PPL you can be paid as either a CRI (I did that last year) or FI holder (got that now, but without EASA CPL TK).

And also, by CPL theoretical knowledge, they mean passes in the EASA/JAA exams... So in my case, holding an ICAO (FAA) CPL and ICAO instructor ratings (qualified to teach an FAA CPL and IR) count for nothing as far as my knowledge, as I haven't paid a load of money for the gold-plated EASA/CAA's CPL written tests and passed them - something I would do if there wasn't this stupid need for compulsory ground school, plus brush up, plus sitting the exams where and when the CAA decide.

[Prop swinger]

Bit behind the times, as it's been this way for quite a while now. I think paid was from April last year.

Yeah, but they forgot to include CRIs, the subject of this recent doc.

[sapperkenno]

Ukppl(a) - now able to instruct? Fi(a) & afi(a)

Actually, paid would have been since April 2012 IIRC. What exactly is the meaning of "in a club environment?" Does that mean that CRIs can't just freelance, or have to belong to a RF/ATO?

[BillieBob]

ORS4 No.1001 is specific to UK (i.e. non-EASA) PPL holders and seeks to extend to CRIs the exemption already in place for FIs to permit remuneration for flight instruction. The restriction to a 'club environment' is utterly meaningless as there is no definition of a 'club'. The instructor and student may set up a 'club' in which they are the only members and which exists only for the duration of the training.

EASA PPL holders with instructor ratings are not restricted to instructing in a 'club' environment but, since almost all instruction is now confined to an ATO, this doesn't make a great deal of difference.

[MANFRED1]

Hello Long Drive!

[Level Attitude]

No one else seems to have mentioned it so:

The holder of a UK (non-EASA) Licence will not be able to instruct on
EASA aircraft after April 2014.

So a CRI Rating attached to such a Licence will have limited utility and
an FI Rating even less.

[rkgpilot]

BB said:
[/I]EASA PPL holders with instructor ratings are not restricted to instructing in a 'club' environment but, since almost all instruction is now confined to an ATO, this doesn't make a great deal of difference.[/I]

So I take that to mean that an EASA PPL with FI or CRI can freelance if he so wishes. Is this set to change any time soon? I had understood that any instruction would have to be through an ATO, but maybe this rule isn't yet in force? I was told this by an instructor at my club, but admit I haven't tried to verify it.

[Whopity]

So I take that to mean that an EASA PPL with FI or CRI can freelance

Yes, they can conduct training with a current licence holder i.e the dual flight with an instructor and differences training but; all training for a licence or rating, including renewal, must be conducted at an ATO.

Is it correct that the holder of a UK PPL(A) using a recent ANO amendment can now undertake a FI's course

A PPL holder has always been able to undergo an FI Course; a PPL holder may now be remunerated for instruction and in addition, teach for the LAPL without having to demonstrate CPL level knowledge however; hours taught by an FI without CPL knowledge, will not count towards a PPL, unless all training for the LAPL has been completed. The latter is likely to affect their employability at any ATO other than those primarily conducting training for the LAPL.

[BEagle]

....hours taught by an FI without CPL knowledge, will not count towards a PPL, unless all training for the LAPL has been completed.

Which would be completely unreasonable. For example, a pilot starts a LAPL course because he can't hold a LAPL medical, then finds that actually he can - is all previous training for the LAPL by an FI without CPL knowledge to be discounted? Of course not - so this point was raised at the EASA TAG/SSCC/FCL meeting in Dec 2013 and will be put to the RMT.0596 team....

....when they actually form - because the ToRs won't even be drafted until Q4/2014!

[Level Attitude]

is all previous training for the LAPL by an FI without CPL knowledge to be discounted? Of course not

Of course Yes - Because that is what the rules say!

this point was raised at the EASA TAG/SSCC/FCL meeting in Dec 2013 and will be put to the RMT.0596 team

If, and when, the rules change then perhaps your "Of course not" will be
accurate - but, at the moment it is not.