Syndicate sizes / Legal limit of members

[The_Observer]

Can anyone give me any guidance as to the legal 'syndicate' sizes for a group operating 1 or 2 aircraft?

Many thanks

Observer

[muffin]

I seem to remember it is 20, but that said I was once in one where nobody knew how many were in it but between us we had met at least 40 others.

[Shaggy Sheep Driver]

20 is considered to be the max, but I was in a group larger than that which I was assured was entirely legal... So there are ways to go beyond 20.

[Whopity]

The maximum of 20 is for the purposes of Articl 269 of the ANO:

Public transport and aerial work – exceptions – jointly owned aircraft
269 (1) A flight is a private flight if the aircraft falls within paragraph (2) and the only valuable
consideration given or promised for the flight or the purpose of the flight falls within
paragraph (3).
(2) An aircraft falls within this paragraph if it is owned:
(a) jointly by persons (each of whom is a natural person) who each hold not less than
a 5% beneficial share and:
(i) the aircraft is registered in the names of all the joint owners; or
(ii) the aircraft is registered in the name or names of one or more of the joint
owners as trustee or trustees for all the joint owners and written notice has
been given to the CAA of the names of all the persons beneficially entitled
to a share in the aircraft; or
(b) by a company in the name of which the aircraft is registered and the registered
shareholders of which (each of whom is a natural person) each hold not less than
5% of the shares in that company.
(3) Valuable consideration falls within this paragraph if it is given or promised by one or
more of the joint owners of the aircraft or registered shareholders of the company
which owns the aircraft and is either or both:
(a) in respect of and no greater than the direct costs of the flight; or
(b) in respect of the annual costs.

Each aircraft is considered seperately.

[phiggsbroadband]

The waters could become somewhat murkier if, as well as a couple of aircraft, the group also owns an expensive large hangar which is worth as much as each plane.

[The_Observer]

Thanks for your replies. Is the 20 limit applicable to a single aircraft syndicate?

[bookworm]

The maximum of 20 is for the purposes of Article 269 of the ANO:

Bear in mind that this article was created to allow jointly owned aircraft to be operated on a private C of A instead of a public C of A. With EASA aircraft these days, there's no difference between the regimes of aircraft that are hired out and aircraft that are operated privately. AIC W 001/2011, makes this clear even though the subject matter is a little different.

[robin]

I'd certainly stay away from a group of more than 8.

Nice to have lower monthlies, but you might find it difficult to fly if the others are keen types or hours building

[Shaggy Sheep Driver]

I'd certainly stay away from a group of more than 8.

Nice to have lower monthlies, but you might find it difficult to fly if the others are keen types or hours building

For many aircraft that may be true, but not for all. The group I was in with more than 20 members was a Chipmunk. Normally an expensive aeroplane to operate (maintenance is costly on these ex-mil types as are increasingly rare and often-needed spares) a big group makes it easily affordable - cheaper than a flying club spam can, which is amazing for such a delightful aeroplane that's normally the plaything of the wealthy single owner or well-heeled small group!

Because it's not a touring machine and doesn't get taken away from base for long, a big group works OK from an availability point of view.

So for any aeroplane which is used mainly for aeros or local strip flying a big group can be fine. And careful management of share ownership ensures hours builders don't get into the group!

[muffin]

During my time in the huge group mentioned above, I never once met availability problems. It was only a C152 and I think that over 50% of the members never flew it. In my experience in about 5 different groups over a 35 year period that is par for the course. My present group has only 3 members, one has not flown for well over a year and I only did about 5 hours in the last year. So the one guy that does fly often virtually has it to himself.

[Genghis the Engineer]

My experiences are similar - I've been in several syndicates bigger than a dozen members and still got the aeroplane at least 70% of the times I wanted it.

G

[bingoboy]

Size of group is no indicator of availability. I was once in a small group where one person booked every Sunday all day with no regard for others .

I have also been in a group with in excess of 40 members (we called ourselves a club) and at times struggled to exceed 200hrs total per year. Most members had other aircraft or access to them and perhaps saw this one as a cheap backup.

Each group is different.

[A and C]

Bookworm

The private and public transport C of A categories went away with EASA a few years back the only difference now is that aircraft operated as "private" get some maintenance breaks the biggest being to operate the engine "on condition" past TBO+20%

I am astounded that such terms from the era of the Air Registration Board linger on long after they are no longer law !

[Tay Cough]

Depends what sort of flying the group intends to do.

If the aircraft is a tourer, a larger group may have issues regarding availability. We have ten in our aerobatic aircraft group (which rarely lands away) so availability isn't an issue for us.

[bingoboy]

It may seem odd but the larger of the 2 groups mentioned in my earlier post sees itself as a touring group and members accept that a significant day or so out will or can trump a local bimble.
Helps that there is usually a spare seat or two which members mention when booking.
For some reason this has worked for many years. Again I mention that most have access to another aircraft be it club, share, ownership etc but not all.