Flying over the Lakes?

[Odai]

Hello,


I am currently hour building towards my CPL, and am flying a 172 from Blackpool.


I've planned a trip to take a friend on a local flight over the Lake District, mainly for the scenic views, and am looking for feedback on the most enjoyable route to take and altitude to fly.


At the moment, I have this planned out at about 5000 feet:





Any suggestions or tips in general about flying in that area?


Thanks!


Odai.

[OhNoCB]

I don't have any experience of that area personally, but if I was going to do the same trip, I would just get there and point the nose towards any bit that looks interesting. I would also cautiously suggest that I would evaluate the winds at surface to 5000' and make sure they were not strong. I would also want to fly lower than 5000' for the views.

[WeeJeem]

IIRC, that neck of the woods is quite active in terms of wave in some wind directions, so if you're not already au fait with lee (standing) waves, rotor and the potential for unexpectedly eye-watering rates of descent despite trying to climb at full throttle, you might want to gen up on the whole thing before your trip.

HTH

[MrYeti]

Looks good. Flew over at 4,000 in the summer and got stonking views. If you go a little further north you have got Kirkbride and Carslile.

[Johnm]

As long as you avoid flying in the lee of the really big lumps you should be fine. 5000 ft is above IFR minima you should be able to go a lot lower for the views in VFR and light winds.

[soay]

There's no need to be up at 5000 ft over Windermere, but watch out for military jets at low level on weekdays.

[piperboy84]

http://www.caa.govt.nz/safety_info/G...ain_Flying.pdf


The section on Wind starting at page 7 is quite good regarding mountain wave and rotors.

And yes I know the lake district ain't the southern Alps, but it's valuable reading all the same.

[J.A.F.O.]

I did my QXC from Blackpool to Walney Island to Carlisle and back. That was in 1986 and I still remember it today.

Fantastic views, don't think I was much above 3500' but it was a very long time ago so I don't really remember the specifics, just the views.

[DCS136]

Odai,

With regards to route choice, I fly regularly in the lakes (I live there). I would recommend extending your leg North from Ambleside to fly over Ullswater then bear left to and fly the valley towards Keswick whilst taking in the ridges of Blencathra. After arriving at Keswick, bear left and take a low level flight(wind/local conditions permitting) across Derwentwater and down the Borrowdale valley , it is simply stunning.

I would however echo the cautionary advice given above regarding rotor and lee slopes. On a recent flight I made an unwise decision to fly at 2000ft from Cockermouth to Keswick to Penrith, there was a moderate Northerly wind which resulted in strong rotor and turbulence in the lee of the Skiddaw massif. Maintaining S&L was challenging to say the least. Moral of the story is to be mindful of wind strength and direction, and apply this to the local topography to determine what the local conditions will be like on the day. This should help make the decision on both the suitability of the route and the altitude to fly at.

A 1:50,000 Ordnance Survey Map is useful for determining the aspect of slopes and finding interesting features to fly over.

Great place to fly, have fun!

[Johnm]

http://www.caa.govt.nz/safety_info/G...ain_Flying.pdf


The section on Wind starting at page 7 is quite good regarding mountain wave and rotors.

And yes I know the lake district ain't the southern Alps, but it's valuable reading all the same.

Having flown in the Southern Alps and round Mount Cook using this excellent advice I can only concur

[Tomg89]

Ah good, Im hoping to do this soon so would be happy to know how you get on! I too am in the process of hour building!
Cheers
Tom

[AberdeenAngus]

If you get bored, do a few low passes over Sellafield.
Things will get interesting.

[Genghis the Engineer]

A 1:50,000 Ordnance Survey Map is useful for determining the aspect of slopes and finding interesting features to fly over.

Or fly it in google earth first, then go and find everything for real.

My biggest issue in the Lakes has been low cloud, followed by correctly identifying the right valley to fly down when not using GPS. But, there isn't a bit of ugly or uninteresting scenery there - just pick a route and fly it to be frank.

See if you can also go and fly over Spadeadam range if it's cold (usually is at weekends) and see the mock up airfield full of migs the RAF uses for bombing practice.

G

[DeepestSouth]

Only slightly off thread - you could also pop across to see us on the Isle of Man! Ronaldsway is a great airfield, good food and drink at the club house, very helpful and interested ATC. Lots to see from the air, too! Just a little bit of water to cross!

[Odai]

Many thanks for all the great responses guys, very useful.


The reason I decided on 5000 feet was due to the highest peak there being 3200 feet from what I can see. I figured that margin would be enough to avoid the various wind phenomena associated with hills/mountains. However, looking through the PPL met textbooks and the NZ CAA guide linked to by piperboy84, there doesn't seem to be much information out there on actually quantifying just how high I'd need to be to avoid mountain waves, rotor areas, katabatic winds etc. Would simply being above the peaks be enough?


WRT the route, I guess I could just fly around when I actually get there rather than stick to the exact planned route - it would be easy to re-position again even without the obvious geographical features due to the VOR.

[Crash one]

We wus telt not to go too close to the high country north of Perth if the wind is much above 15knots. Hills suck, be careful. But lovely place the Lakes.

[cats_five]

If there is good mountain wave then 5,000' is nowhere near high enough to be clear of it. The maximum height on the BGA ladder for flights from Skelling is over 14,000', which was in easterly wave.

[Pace]

Odal

I echo what most have said! Choose your day with no winds good vis and high or no cloud then you can fly much lower than 5000 feet! As another poster said even 5000 feet can be too low on the wrong day.

the worst turbulence I ever experienced gave me 45 degree wing drops over the Alps near Nice.
This was in a Jet from 20000 feet to 30000 feet, this jet in the 20 to 30K range climbed normally at about 1000 fpm on this occasion with a clearance to FL320 the VSI showed 3000fpm up cupboards flying open items being thrown about in every direction.

so select your day not your altitude

Pace

[Maoraigh1]

I've planned a trip to take a friend on a local flight over the Lake District

Do your first flight in mountains solo - then take your friend. Look at winds at hilltop level, not just at the airfield. Be sure which side has updraft and which downdraft.
Most of my flying is in the hills, usually below summit level.

[Odai]

Thanks again guys, hugely appreciated.


I guess it would have to be a day with calm winds then. My main concern originally was actually just visibility and whether I'd be able to get high enough without hitting a solid cloud layer... :P


On that note, where can I look for more detailed weather information for the local area? There don't seem to be any METARs/TAFs associated with airfields in the area - the only thing I'm aware of is the synoptic Met Office F215 chart. Is there anything more specific I can use?


With regards to my choice of altitude, the other reason behind choosing 5000 feet was to give myself more options in terms of gliding clear of the rougher parts in case of an engine failure. I guess I will have to wait until I get there to see what it is like before deciding how low I can go.