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Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: UK
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Yeah I agree. I helped out at a flying school once, and what a con it was too.
The deal was you scrub dishes for 8 hours a day. After four shifts you get half an hour flying lesson. Absolute rip off. I left after a day when I spoke to someone and asked how many lessons they had had. They said two. Yet they had been their two months already with one shift a weekend. It's just a way to lure you in to catch the flying bug, then you pay for lessons to get your licence quicker.
As a young person going there, the least I can say is that it was appealing.
As I drove up the driveway, it was full of pot holes. I drove past a rusty hangar and eventually parked up in the uneven car park. In pride of place in the grass parking area was a plane similar to a Beech King Air (can't remember exactly what it was) but it looked like it was from the 1960's. All of the planes were tatty and there wasn't a newish plane in sight.
I walked in the cafe and told them I was here to enquire about the volunteer scheme. The lady at the bar then said OK and said "I'll get you a drink and if you would like to sit their and wait for someone to come out". Great I thought, told her a drink I would like, then she asked me to pay!!! The way she said it made it sound like it was 'on the house' as I was a potential volunteer.
Then she potters over and asks me why I am here again. I tell her I am here for the volunteering scheme and she says she thought I was here for an interview for a job vacancy they had.
The then ushers me into the members room to speak to the manager about it. Met the manager who was colder than the ice in my drink, and told her I had emailed before hand. Told her my name and she said 'Oh I don't remember you'. Uhm thanks.
She explained the rip off scheme and I thought i'd give it a go anyway.
Was terrible. No one really welcomed me, and after the first day I was only allowed to text the kitchen manager to say whether I'd like to continue or not!!!
The only guys who made me feel welcome were the pilots, who were probably about 10 years or so older than me. The cafe was also full of old people.
I can say on behalf of the young population of the UK, a flying school is NOT where you want to spend your free time. You'd feel more at home in a care home watching people waiting to die.
Obviously this is just my experience, but GA doesn't fit in with the high profile pilot image that is thrust upon you as a child. If it was a bit cheaper and not so risky, i'd set up a flight school tomorrow purely for the younger population and get GA back on the radar of young people today!
The deal was you scrub dishes for 8 hours a day. After four shifts you get half an hour flying lesson. Absolute rip off. I left after a day when I spoke to someone and asked how many lessons they had had. They said two. Yet they had been their two months already with one shift a weekend. It's just a way to lure you in to catch the flying bug, then you pay for lessons to get your licence quicker.
As a young person going there, the least I can say is that it was appealing.
As I drove up the driveway, it was full of pot holes. I drove past a rusty hangar and eventually parked up in the uneven car park. In pride of place in the grass parking area was a plane similar to a Beech King Air (can't remember exactly what it was) but it looked like it was from the 1960's. All of the planes were tatty and there wasn't a newish plane in sight.
I walked in the cafe and told them I was here to enquire about the volunteer scheme. The lady at the bar then said OK and said "I'll get you a drink and if you would like to sit their and wait for someone to come out". Great I thought, told her a drink I would like, then she asked me to pay!!! The way she said it made it sound like it was 'on the house' as I was a potential volunteer.
Then she potters over and asks me why I am here again. I tell her I am here for the volunteering scheme and she says she thought I was here for an interview for a job vacancy they had.
The then ushers me into the members room to speak to the manager about it. Met the manager who was colder than the ice in my drink, and told her I had emailed before hand. Told her my name and she said 'Oh I don't remember you'. Uhm thanks.
She explained the rip off scheme and I thought i'd give it a go anyway.
Was terrible. No one really welcomed me, and after the first day I was only allowed to text the kitchen manager to say whether I'd like to continue or not!!!
The only guys who made me feel welcome were the pilots, who were probably about 10 years or so older than me. The cafe was also full of old people.
I can say on behalf of the young population of the UK, a flying school is NOT where you want to spend your free time. You'd feel more at home in a care home watching people waiting to die.
Obviously this is just my experience, but GA doesn't fit in with the high profile pilot image that is thrust upon you as a child. If it was a bit cheaper and not so risky, i'd set up a flight school tomorrow purely for the younger population and get GA back on the radar of young people today!
Son of a friend used to spend a lot of his spare time around our flying club helping out, cadging flights, making tea.
Used to - he's busy now. He joined the RAF at 18 and last year at 21 or 22 flew a Tornado in the Queen's birthday flightpast.
But that was a real club wih no commercial interests. There aren't many of those nowadays.
G
Used to - he's busy now. He joined the RAF at 18 and last year at 21 or 22 flew a Tornado in the Queen's birthday flightpast.
But that was a real club wih no commercial interests. There aren't many of those nowadays.
G
Join Date: Sep 2011
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It is wrong, short-sighted and poor marketing/customer care for any business to treat potential customers in an off-hand way...
but...
the folk hanging around at flying clubs and schools don't necessarily have a vested interest in being welcoming (apart from common decency, which is in short supply these days) and 90% of folk who turn up at a GA airfield un-announced are spotters, tyre kickers and general Walter Mitty characters.
GA doesn't fit in with the high profile pilot image that is thrust upon you
as a child
That is indeed true - but the mistake is confusing your local club on a farm strip or crumbling WWII airfield with that image in the first place.
but...
the folk hanging around at flying clubs and schools don't necessarily have a vested interest in being welcoming (apart from common decency, which is in short supply these days) and 90% of folk who turn up at a GA airfield un-announced are spotters, tyre kickers and general Walter Mitty characters.
GA doesn't fit in with the high profile pilot image that is thrust upon you
as a child
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Glasgow
Age: 40
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As someone who's new to this game and spent a bit of time visiting various local - as I'm lucky to have a few in the area - flying clubs (some more commercial than others) I can say that I've experienced both sides of this and it was a big factor in my final decision in where to train, cost being a close second 
The warmest welcome and friendliest environment was without question Xrayalpha's Strathaven airfield. It's a small local grass strip, and if it weren't for the fact that I'd like to go on to get a Night and IMC Rating, and fly aircraft with 4 seats, that would have been the (very easy) decision made - unfortunately they only offer Microlight training (although the C42 is pretty close to a 'real' plane) and anyway it's not really suitable for a PA28 ...
The next best was one of multiple clubs/training schools based at a smaller local airport - the instructor was great, friendly and ultimately if not for the considerably lower cost at a closer (and ironically bigger) airport which is also pretty friendly, I'd have been there without question.
That said there was a couple which echo the experiences others have mentioned in this thread very much the air (no pun intended) of a 'private' club or society with no real interest in taking new members, the oft-promoted 'trial/experience flights' which seem to be the bread and butter of many of these organisations seemed more like a chore to some rather than something they enjoyed doing or in any way encouraging people to want to fly.
Lastly, there's the cost, I accept that flying is not a cheap business - and indeed fuel is probably more expensive in the UK than anywhere else... however there are huge price disparities across the country. A friend of mine trained at a small airfield down south where hiring a PA28 Cherokee is about £99, or £129 with an instructor. I live north of the border and am paying 40% more to train in the same aircraft - and the cheaper one is in better condition, but 240 miles away - so not really practical for training!
Mention even the 'lower' of these prices to people who don't have an interest in aviation or even to those who fly but in the US and watch their reaction..
The aforementioned friend now owns his own a/c, and got support and advice in doing that from others at the airfield... I know people who've made the same suggestion up here to be met with "oh, you don't ever want to own a plane, too much hassle" ... well that it may be, but still - why not encourage people who actually WANT to fly more often, potentially start a new sharing group or similar - surely having more people actively involved in GA is a good thing ?
Unfortunately I have neither the skill, confidence nor patience to become an instructor - otherwise I'd be tempted to try and form yet another club and try to do it differently...
The strange thing is, despite the somewhat frosty welcome at most places, particularly the first I went to, it never deterred me from wanting to get back up there!
The warmest welcome and friendliest environment was without question Xrayalpha's Strathaven airfield. It's a small local grass strip, and if it weren't for the fact that I'd like to go on to get a Night and IMC Rating, and fly aircraft with 4 seats, that would have been the (very easy) decision made - unfortunately they only offer Microlight training (although the C42 is pretty close to a 'real' plane) and anyway it's not really suitable for a PA28 ...
The next best was one of multiple clubs/training schools based at a smaller local airport - the instructor was great, friendly and ultimately if not for the considerably lower cost at a closer (and ironically bigger) airport which is also pretty friendly, I'd have been there without question.
That said there was a couple which echo the experiences others have mentioned in this thread very much the air (no pun intended) of a 'private' club or society with no real interest in taking new members, the oft-promoted 'trial/experience flights' which seem to be the bread and butter of many of these organisations seemed more like a chore to some rather than something they enjoyed doing or in any way encouraging people to want to fly.
Lastly, there's the cost, I accept that flying is not a cheap business - and indeed fuel is probably more expensive in the UK than anywhere else... however there are huge price disparities across the country. A friend of mine trained at a small airfield down south where hiring a PA28 Cherokee is about £99, or £129 with an instructor. I live north of the border and am paying 40% more to train in the same aircraft - and the cheaper one is in better condition, but 240 miles away - so not really practical for training!
Mention even the 'lower' of these prices to people who don't have an interest in aviation or even to those who fly but in the US and watch their reaction..
The aforementioned friend now owns his own a/c, and got support and advice in doing that from others at the airfield... I know people who've made the same suggestion up here to be met with "oh, you don't ever want to own a plane, too much hassle" ... well that it may be, but still - why not encourage people who actually WANT to fly more often, potentially start a new sharing group or similar - surely having more people actively involved in GA is a good thing ?
Unfortunately I have neither the skill, confidence nor patience to become an instructor - otherwise I'd be tempted to try and form yet another club and try to do it differently...
The strange thing is, despite the somewhat frosty welcome at most places, particularly the first I went to, it never deterred me from wanting to get back up there!
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: lancs.UK
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That is indeed true - but the mistake is confusing your local club on a farm strip or crumbling WWII airfield with that image in the first place.
At 13 years old, I worked 8.30 am to midnight, 7 days a week YES! REALLY! during the school holidays.....pay, back then , £10 a week probably equivalent to around £10 a day nowadays....Oh, and I got 1/2 hour for lunch and 2/- (10P ) lunch money.today, they want it all, want it now and think it's their right.
Basic economics make GA in this country expensive and smaller, undevelopeds airfields, a financial nightmare.
how the hell a few landing fees and a bit of hangar-rental can sustain even the capital cost and maintenance and rates on a hangar , makes me wonder why anyone bothers providing those facilities.
In the past, most social clubs made substantial bar and catering profits which propped up the finances....those days are gone! drink-drive legislation killed it.
Higher membership fees, to rebuild the finances, lead to charges of elitism.
I dunno what the answer is, WRT "volunteering"...it is simply bartering your unskilled labour for the instructor's time, expertise and aircraft.
You could always get a "pot -washer's" job at a local restaurant/fast food outlet and save your wage to pay for instruction like the majority of students.
wanting the penny and the toffee come to mind.
Join Date: Feb 2007
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Higher membership fees, to rebuild the finances, lead to charges of elitism.
Lack of money, lack of 'profit', certainly makes Jack a dull boy. Running business, especially in aviation, can become a total drudge, with no clear way out. Unless you lock the door. As I stated earlier, manners and a smile cost nothing, but as you highlight, not everybody can manage this.
It is a really difficult situation. But being grumpy, rude, unwelcoming, has only one final outcome. The doors will shut, of that there can be no doubt.There are a lot of other issues, fuel at 2.20 a ltr, security, business rates, water rates, gas/electric and the list goes on, but through all of that, clubs must offer a sanctuary for those wanting and willing, and that comes with an intial smile, and Can I help You?
Join Date: Oct 2013
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Having said all of that you sometimes forget as a pilot that others don't fly. I was at my club last year and our cleaner was in, lovely lady who comes in once a week to tidy up the mess left by a load of blokes. I casually mentioned 'When was the last time anybody took you up'? She said no one ever had so I told her to stop right away what she was doing and took her flying for an hour. She was absolutely made up and I was quite made up with how made up she was! It's easy to forget what a unique experience it is to people. I'm sure the other guys at the club hadn't left her out through meaness, they just probably never thought to ask; indeed I wouldn't have asked myself other than we were making idle conversation.
Join Date: Feb 2009
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Seething have a very good system, they are a charity and to become a member you have to volunteer to do all sorts of odd jobs. It knocks the elitism bit on the head when the bloke cleaning the bogs also owns the smartest aircraft there.
SND
SND
